actually libwww is a piece of cake, and simple, simple routines to make it work once the server is updated locally. I saw demos on it which do what I want in 5 lines of code, and both perl4|5 versions exist. But what I plan on doing must be generic in nature across most platforms and not everyone runs perl5. It's for a UBB hack in production. I could be asking the impossible (or implausible, which is the better word to describe my dilemna.)