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net.enabling packages comes with wwwThreads already installed on your server if you purchase the license.
http://www.netenabling.com


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Nice but a bit pricey though. What is Links v2?


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Its a very nice search engine by Gossamer threads. Not the highest end product but really really good. Free to non profits and about I think 200 or so otherwise


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That is pricey for me for whats offered...
But it does give an idea about that cihost users group hehehe

Remember the idea of charging folks for hosting on my reseller account just what I pay...well what if we upped it slightly to help account costs and installed wwwthreads/... hmmmmm renee getting ideas :)


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Excellent idea! And that Links search engine too.


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While we are at it..it drives me nuts that all the isp's offer Matts web board and a hard to use forms program etc..when better stuff is out there.

Maybe we could put together web site deals that we would want...like say:
400megs, unlimited mailing lists fowarding 12gig bandwidth,myql and modules,
24 hour phone support(unfortunately via cihost)

cost plus $72 setup fee (start at $16/month but once enough members came in this charge go lower as more signed up..down to $8)
includes installation of any 2
the following IF you have a liscense:
(all stuff that we think is top notch AND requires installation
so for instance hyperseek is top notch but installation is included)
wwwthreads
links2
faq generator (cgi world)

And then automatically include freeware that actually matters:
pollit or survey says
iweb guestbook, mailing program , form program and ring programs
htdig search engine

OR separate packages for different types of sites....


AND A MEMBERS helping MEMBERS wwwthreads board that gives web tips to eachother etc.. helps advertise eachothers sites etc,,...the wheels are turning
Maybe some sort of cihost group search sites search engine encouraging members to support eachother sites by visiting with rotating featured site



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Great stuff. Give us the links to those programs you mention so we can all go have a look.


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Renee,
Considering your obvious expertise with what is valuable or not - why is cihost not expendable? Seems like your emphasis is on total quality on every other matter. Is their product so valuable to beat the rest even with the problems identified on this board in other threads?

Just asking because I recently spent a ton of time on looking for the right host []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]

Jay


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Let me answer the why cihost is not expendanble question..

CIHOST IS expendable...BUT what I have found is that ALL hosts have their problems some pretty major for those doing web development.
EVEN expensive ones like Virtualis. I have watched software developers ..swear by a number of ISP's that they higher cost was worth it...only to find that the higher costy was worth it for 6 months. Then the staff member who had the knowledge needed to make ot go moves on and WHAM back on the market for a new ISP.

SOme low end ISP's simply need to be avoided because of speed and various things..and some sites NEED a high end system given their nature. BUT most don't. They need the stuff they need installed installed and a lot of room to do what they do.

We could do what I am proposing at another ISP but at a MUCh higher cost.
And while right now I wanna kill CIHOST wink ....this is a temporary situation.

The best way to do this would be to have our own server. BUT again I know that this costs a lot more monet and having run a linux server ...things happen and it takes a lot of time to make it right. So we'd have to charge a good deal.

I'm very open to alternative ways to go...and if ISP's are listening and have some ideas...since this could increase your sales (smile) get intouch with me at [email protected].
Having said that ...With CIHOST even before we have large numbers I can offer sites at a cost of $16 include 400megs, unlimited mysql databases and everything else smile....
And supposedly accounts hosted by resellers get a g=uaranteed 4 hous response time (for PIR resellers which I am)...Now they have not followed through on that well...bvut I have been able to get better service BECAUSE of that guarantee for people (outside the current situation) then i have elsewhere. And when they have fallen short..I just picked up the telephone and called them 24 hours.

So thats the scoop ...ideas welcome...


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Renee,

I'm not quite following this thread, so I'm not sure what your "proposing". You say the best thing would be your own server, and you imply that you could run a Linux box. Why not just co-locate your own box somewhere?

John

John


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The cost in terms of time is huge. To offer the sort of hosting we are talking about, and deal with all that happens when one runs a webserver (I have indeed done this) AND supporting customers...Would be very time consuming and CHARGING for that would defeat the goal.

Reselling allows us to put maintenance on the host... I could concentrate on the quality services....and maintaing the WEB HOST USERS WEBSITE and adding service like wwwthreads installation to their normal reseller package..
AND with lots of people the cost of each package goes DOWN. So offeringthe package at acost (or a bit more if added services will take a bunch of time)means...initially people would pay $16 (cost) for a great deal and when more joined the users group their COST per package would GO DOWN to whatever the reseller was charged:)

At the same time that members got a great deal on hosting...they would be part of a community that could make clear to ISPs what we want and need and if CIHOST didn't meet our needs perhaps anther host would make us a real offer
(not like the come to us campaigns some hosts which do not offer the basic stuff we need like mysql and decent transfer 8 perferrably 10 or 12 gigs are calling and writing to get us to swutch HSSSSSS bad business practice if you ask me;))


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Renee,

I'm still not following what you are proposing, sorry if I'm being thick. It seems that you want to have a professional support staff serve at your pleasure, but you're only willing to pay $16 per month for the privledge.

Even if the company is committed to providing the level of support you desire, the numbers involved make it inevitable that at some point, your going to loose to the law of averages and get no, or worse, bad support. (How many $16 per month customers does the company have, and how much staff to support those customers and run operations?)

What I do is I co-locate my server. I used to work for a CLEC, when I was there I built a room that has so much bandwidth in it that my mind is still boggled. (Its measured in Gb/s not Mb/s <devilish grin>) I rent space from them, and electricity. That costs me ~50/mo. I pay for the bandwidth I use, and of course I had an in, so I may get a better price than some, but $50 per 64Kb/s channel is not out of the question for the average Joe. There may be a logrithmic equation for pricing, so it starts out higher, and tops at $1,200 per month per t1 equivelance. I bought a couple of low priced Intel boxes from my buddy who builds them. All told my total expenses currently are around $250 per month (box payments included, on a 2 year note). I have a couple of friends who do web development, so the part they chip in currently covers all my costs (net cost = 0) and my time is my contribution to the whole thing.

And I make money developing solutions for business, and sometimes hosting those solutions at around $75 per month (to me). If I ever get into bigger bandwidth I'll make money on banner ads or something to cover the costs.

Right now, I'm no where near capacity, so I'll make a living, if I ever get there. (If it sounds like I'm trying to convince myself that I don't need to get a job, you're right. <G> I love the commute, down the stairs, and the dresscode is just right most days, bathrobe.)

BTW, I only do the hosting for some old buddies of mine who resell the service to thier clients. This was not a pitch, just a suggestion of how you could offset the costs in order to get the level of service you want/expect. How many friends do you have that would pay ~$25 per month to have a virtual web server hosted on your box if you were their sole means of support for that?

My 2 cents;
John


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John..
The reason you are not following is probably because you have different needs than many of us who have been posting here and who host and /or resell at cihost. Check out http://www.reselleraccounts.com and read the features resellers get and what they can offer and you will see that infact what I am suggesting is a way to use a great service that already exits..but work out the kinks. In fact as a reseller I can offer all that I said at the $16 rate (at that rate I make nothing)
AND those who host in the way have found we sometimes need a bit more in terms of support and a few other things.... A CIHOST users group could provide this bit more PLUS make it easy for all of us to get these services for less.

I'm glad you are an average Joe who can afford the time and the money mentioned above. You make your living at it...Some of us have other sorts of needs and goals and other jobs. neither is better But your solution does not work for me..and would not fit many of my clients. It would fit some.
But again http://www.reselleraccounts.com and rereadingthe thread might help clarify things....
On the other hand I am not sure if you are not hosted by CIhost and don't have an interest in weblosting options with threads installed this group would be of interest to you ;)
I'd love to see a separate thread where you could tell us your experience of co hosting and time involved , suggestions of where and what to look for in making those choices..how to decide when its time to get ones own server etc.
Perhaps you might start one smile ?
But I'd hope in this thread we can continue to discuss webhosts for those who want to continue virtual hosting--Renee


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Now why does that make you sound like a reseller :-)... It doesn't sound very much like you actually pay for your leased lined <G> It's nice to be able to offer unlimited things if you don't actually end up paying for them..


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Seb:
That does hit the nail on the head.
If you go for a small ISP they cant possibilly offer what we need AND give decent support and make enough money to survive.

Big developers can afford say Virtualis DEDA @ server sort of thing...high end dedicated servers and pat and take the time for maintenance etc..

But most folks in these forums can't. Now a host like CIHOST --a large server farms with oodles of cusotmers can and does offer a good deal more features and support. But there are, as there always wil be problems. What this proposal is about is finding a way to use of common interests in development and needs
and the reseller account to add *patch* the problems and take advamtage of the rather obvious advantages ...and to do it in a way that can benefit all participants financially.
Its not a pipe fream its based on what already IS offered by them which is why you will find folks like myslef and MattyJ and Eillen who are regulars here host and most of us have reseller accounts with them.
For all the problems its the best deal going...
This proposal is simply a way to combine our resources to help each-other

Renee Levant [b]Oracle Web Services[b]
[email protected]


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