UBB.Developers Forums General Discussion Suggestions and Feedback FAQ About the Transition

Ted,

I am wondering if you would address the issue of censorship in your forums. I am quite concerned when I read accounts like this which seem to indicate that free discussion is discouraged and people are banned for even bringing up problems like bugs.

Since you did not include this in your FAQ, and it does seem to be a frequently asked question, would you please address the issue of censorship in your forums? Specifically as it relates to:

1. Complaints about the product.
2. Complaints about service.
3. Discussion of bugs and/or other problems with the software.
4. Discussion of difficulty of installation.
5. Discussion of, and/or comparison to, competing products.

I am asking for your response here, in a forum that has allowed free discussion of all these issues, since I fear that, once these forums are moved to your site, this type of question may not be welcome. As you reply, please be specific about each of the 5 points I listed. I look forward to your response.

Just as an FYI - the "official" code hacking website, being set up by the crew at UBBDev, myself, and a few members of this community (and anyone else that wants to lend a hand), will have a full area for the Perl version.

I am personally saddened that the Perl version is no longer going to be kept up to date, but I'm just a little biased towards Perl anyway. ;)

*Edit* Clarificaiton on community involvement

We ban users from the support forums for four reasons:

1) Disrupting behavior
2) Extreme profanity
3) Trolling
4) General idiocy, owning a pirated board, etc.

IIRC, we have only banned a small handful of users under the first three... the fourth has a much wider range of people banned, but I doubt that many would object to their removal. ;)

I don't know the exact circumstances of Marty's ban, and will not speculate on it... it does sound out of the ordinary however. I know of only two users banned for "reporting bugs", both of which were outright trolls, attempting to directly cause trouble by posting a major security issue after we had repeatedly stated that it was being taken care of.

Directly answering your points... we have no issues with almost anything, as long as it is not a direct troll (i.e. a post made to encourage negative responses), flamebait (i.e. started to make an argument), etc... Product vs Product debates have been sort of discouraged for quite some time, as we have found that they almost always degrade into a flamefest. This might not be an issue here, on these forums, as there is a much smaller community base and a might tighter sense of comrodary (sp)... but we used to get John Q. User walking up, starting an argument, then never saying anything again.

If it can be kept civil, such debates are just fine. When they get personal, start to insult products (anyones, not just ours), people, companies, etc, the topic gets locked. If the issue is brought up again and again, the person is told to knock it off, and usually banned shortly thereafter - after they fail to stop.

We had a product vs product debate the other day on UBBForums. It was going quite well until people started insulting each other and the products involved. End of discussion...

"Censorship" is relative. If I came into your house and started screaming and yelling at you, breaking your furniture, and doing other nasties, wouldn't you want to kick me out of your house?

If you have concerns about this, please feel free to ask for clarification directly, either here, on Community itself, or via email to any of the available Infopop employees. We'll be glad to help clear things up.

We are not an evil entity, and are saddened that many feel this way. We want to do whatever is nessecary to clear things up.

Thank you.

What is the difference between opentopic and wwwthreads? Is there a possiblity of wwwthreads (soon to be ubbthreads) becoming opentopic?

As a former Administrator of UBB, but transitioning to WWWThreads because of additional functionality, changing the name of WWWThreads to UBBThreads is a step backwards.

Ed

OpenTopic is a totally different product running on a totally different platform using a totally different idea. ;)

OpenTopic uses Java & Oracle in a clustered environment to do some really insane stuff, i.e. millions of pageviews a day. It uses XML & XSLT to perform magic with data... very powerful stuff.

Threads is "just" PHP & MySQL (and whatever else it can be manipulated to run on ;))

(And no, I am not touching the name issue, sorry. []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/])

Trolling?? Can you please explain this term so everyone has a clear understanding of what you all mean by it... When I think of trolling is just someone who wonders around without saying anything... So you all would ban me if I followed the forums but never said anything...

By the term I know from visiting slashdot, a post is considered a troll when it's only purpose is to cause a fight. For instance, on slashdot, if you post LINUX SUCKS! WINDOWS RULES!. This is considered a troll because you know what type of posts are going to follow[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/].

*edit* Uh, well, ankh beat me to linking to the Jargon File... oh well. ;)

I use troll in the classical sense. See: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/troll.html

The Slashdot trolls are practically nothing compared to *REAL* trolls. ;)

What you think of trolling is what I'm used to calling lurking (from "lurking in the shadows")... and if we banned everyone who just hung around without doing anything, the forums would be a very empty place.

OK Troll = Someone looking for flames...

Thanks

Or in general looking to start a fight, annoy people, or cause trouble.

Charles--

I have been doing e-mail for 10 years or so, and cannot recall having seen that IIRC abbreviation before.

Would you kindly define this term?

IIRC -> If I Recall Correctly. I use it quite a bit, as I often do NOT recall correctly.

On Charles comments about the UBB support forums: If you spend any time on the UBB forums, you'll see that almost all questions are answered by a moderator. There's very little sense of "community" involvement, which is one of W3T's biggest advantages, IMO. I'm not sure why the situation has developed that way, but that is the way it is. OTOH, I appreciate that the UBB forums moderators are quite ruthless in keeping the forums orderly, for example, deleting the content of messages that tag on to another message inappropriately. I'm sure this annoys some people, but when you are looking for support or information and don't have a lot of time to waste, it helps a great deal.

I think, however, that the decision to support W3T on Open Topic is really dumb. A demo baord is never a substitute for a fully functioning, heavily used support forum for checking out the features of a script. And imagine trying to explain to someone features that they can't see in front of them. It also seems like poor marketing to me, as it makes W3T appear to be an stepchild product.

"but that is the way it is. OTOH"

WTH is OTOH?

First it was IIRC now it's OTOH.

I mean WTF is OTOH? This is beginning to be a real PIA!

LOL

OTOH = on the other hand.

Now... WTH does WTH mean??? []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/] []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]

re: I think, however, that the decision to support W3T on Open Topic is really dumb.
Uff! Support in Open Topic rather than UBBThreads?????
Is that really the case??????
I hope not! It would be stupid, and not only that, it would mean a great loss.

- I have discovered many bugs while visiting these support boards.
- I have come up with many suggestions/ideas while visiting these boards.

Now... if we arent going to be using the UBBThreads for support... it is my big guess that I will be around much less. I enjoyed doing testing here, seeing what needs improvement before I upgrade, testing more... knowing that my boards work the same way. To be honest... I visit these boards much more than I visit my own boards, that´s why most of my suggestions, ideas, found bugs, and so on, have come up while at these support boards. If we will no longer be using these boards... I would bet I come up with less suggestions, less ideas, and so on... is that good??? []/testimages/icons/mad.gif[/]

"OTOH = on the other hand.

Now... WTH does WTH mean???"

Ha!

WTH = What The He!!

*grin* Just playin' along. []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

> - I have discovered many bugs while visiting these support boards.
> - I have come up with many suggestions/ideas while visiting these boards.
> I enjoyed doing testing here, seeing what needs improvement before I upgrade, testing
> more... knowing that my boards work the same way. To be honest... I visit these boards
> much more than I visit my own boards, that´s why most of my suggestions, ideas, found
> bugs, and so on, have come up while at these support boards.

I _totally_ agree with this as I found myself quite often in the same position.


PS. FYI IIRC WTH means 'What the Hell'. OTOH IANAL so YMMV. HTH. TTFN

In reply to:

---

I think, however, that the decision to support W3T on Open Topic is really dumb. A demo baord is never a substitute for a fully functioning, heavily used support forum for checking out the features of a script.

---

I agree with you completely and totally, and have a personal objection of moving the UBB support forums as well......... however it is *FAR* easier to provide all the support for products on a single board than three seperate ones.

We will be expanding our product line in the future to include non-message board products. What happens then? On what forum do we support those?

From a practicality point of view, a single set of forums for all the products is better.

From another point of view (yours and mine ;)), running the support forums on the product being supported is better.

Either way has tradeoffs, it's just a question of which one we decided to take.

Did I read right? The support and community for this forum will now be handled on a regular UBB forum?
Shoot guys (infopop) I am trying to be positive about the changes, but I do not LIKE the UBB forum itself... That was the number 1 reason I discovered wwwthreads.

Hopefully there will still be an offcial threads forum running someplace? Even if I don't know the people here at all (cause I rarely post) They do feel like friends.

Re:From a practicality point of view, a single set of forums for all the products is better.
This is the wrong way to approach it. You are seeking for your own confort rather than from your customers. How many of your customers will have two products from you? My guess is very few... most will have either system. I understand it is much more practical and less work for you to just have one system for support... but that is wrong, why should any customer care if the support forums are different? They will most probably (98% of the ties at least) only be looking into the support forum of their program. For example, I will probably never need to get into the Open Topic boards... but if I do, I would expect them to be on Open Topic, and UBBThreads on UBBThreads...

Think about what your users and customers need, not what is easiest for you!

+you should be interested in using it as well! As I said in an earlier post, that helps finding bugs, enhancements, ideas, etc...

Hi there,

We currently have a license to WWWthreads and use it to run several installations on a domain. I understand that the terms of the renewal license with Infopop will not allow this and that we will have to purchase one license per installation when our current upgrade license expires.

However, also in this thread (i think, although it may have been another one on this subject) it is stated that the new infopop licenses are for renewals only and that if we do not require upgrades we do not need to renew to keep the software licensed to simply continue to run, that it is only to be eligible to receive updates to the product.

My question is, if we do not pay the upgrade renewal fee, will we still be legally licensed to run multiple copies of the latest version available at our upgrade expiration date? We will never have agreed to any license by Infoppop and therefore should not be bound by the new Infopop clauses.

I am no legal expert tho []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]

In my mind, this would be a clear and a very good reason not to pay the very expensive new costs when multiple installations are installed as are fairly happy with the product as-is.

Thanks
Dave

[:blue]My question is, if we do not pay the upgrade renewal fee, will we still be legally licensed to run multiple copies of the latest version available at our upgrade expiration date? We will never have agreed to any license by Infoppop and therefore should not be bound by the new Infopop clauses.

Yes, you will.

Even if you do decide to download an upgrade you will still be bound by your existing license. The new license terms are only for new customers.

Oh?

So if I pay the annual fee for the upgrades (with the 75% discount) and keep updating my boards I wont have to buy more licences only the cost of the maintainance?

Thats good news, I am sure I had read different somewhere...

Yeah, here is a link to a reply from Charles Capps about this same type of question.

click me