One of my 'loyal' visitors posted a question asking why I don't bin WWWThreads and move to UBB!!!!!!
Honestly, there's no pleasing some people ...
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Interesting... actually there is a forum I used to go to they were first UBB, then they switched to WWWThreads, first everyone was complaining, but it didn't take long and everyone was discovering the powerful features and got used to the slightly different "feel". I wouldn't want UBB on my site, and I hardly go to any UBB forum except occasionally the one on the Gossamer Threads "Links" support site. After trying out a number of other forums and installed various forum scripts on my site, I am sooo glad I found w3t, I wouldn't want anything else. But, like you say, you can't please everyone... since I have w3t, my forum has become much more active, much more people have signed up. Great! []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]
Oh, you guys have my sympathy! I got the same thing from one of my moderators. It took quite a while for my users to get used to W3T. Mainly, people failed to understand that they can totally alter the display of the thing to whatever works best for them personally. Once i got that across everyone has been very happy with it. But first I had to explain the whole threaded vs flat conflict and that with another board we'd be stuck with one or the other and 50% of the people would always be uncomfortable with it, and them how to change to display to function like their favorite boards, whatever they were.
People just don't want options. They want it to look the way they want it to look when they step in the door. And folks who like flat mode find it durned near impossible to understand that others find it totally confusing and vice versa.
[]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/] Phoenix
I actually tried a demo version of UBB (amongst others) when deciding on what forum software to use. I was put off by the message-in-a-file format (database back ends are so much more efficient and save a lot of disk space) and the fact that it is flat format only (at least as far as I could tell).
Mind you, everyone is allowed their preference ... this is mine so now my users have to learn to like it!!![]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
I find the most compelling arguement is that those other boards, however pretty they might seem, simply can't take the strain like one with an SQL backend.
[]
http://www.amdragon.com/images/eileensig.gif[/]
I'm not really talking about the appearance of the forums, but the "theory" of display... as in flat vs threaded and expanded vs collapsed. I hack up W3T to have a UBB-ish appearance because I think it's a tidier page layout. But the issue I always come back to is the "theory" of display.
People who find threaded mode hard to follow will always find it hard to follow, no matter how neatly you present it. And the same for people who prefer flat mode. I can not read fully threaded bulletin boards (as in threaded and threads expanded). They make my eyes cross. Just too many words. []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]
So if I set my default to flat mode, the people who find flat mode confusing complain. And if I set my default to threaded, the people who find threads confusing complain. And W3T is wonderful because it allows each user to set their own prefs for that, and that's what I keep trying to explain to people. But I have a hard time getting the users to realize that they *can* set it up do display the way they want. The users, in exasperation with the default display, write me and beg for me to replace it with BoardX that is their favorite.
[]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/] And I try to explain... this board is like Burger King. You can have it your way. Everybody can have it their way. If I install BoardX, you will have it your way, but the people who don't like it your way can't have it the way they like it.
My major problem is getting people to understand that they can set preferences and what those preferences mean.
Phoenix
And all this brings me back to a separate post I made about having a set of instructions for using WWWThreads!
I think that if users had a manual to refer to then they would find using WWWThreads much easier. After all it is a fairly complex system. We should also remember that a lot of our visitors arn't inquisitive (I guess that webmasters are by nature[]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]).
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Yeah, you're right Simon. I've added some to the FAQ, but that isn't enough. There has to be some front door that people are forced to go through before registering or something like that. If people read my FAQs they would understand about the user prefs, but they don't even look. I need a way to put it a bit more in their face.
Phoenix
Tell me about it! Half of the email I get could be avoided by people reading the FAQ. Even adding buttons with text on them doesn't seem to have helped a lot!
The biggest request I get is about how to post a question. Most people don't seem to realise that they have to select a board first.
Now there's an idea ...
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
I know what you mean! I have a HUGE welcome message now - that has helped considerably :-) Not only do I refer to the FAQ in it - I tell them a lot of the features of the board, how to set their profiles etc. I *think* most people do read the welcome message LOL
Tiffany
Hm, I wish
In reply to:
most people do read the welcome message
was the case! I checked my board's private messages via phpMyAdmin and it showed that at least half the "Welcome" messages had the status 'N' - New, i.e. unread. I've edited the e-mail with the password some, to point out the preferences, option to change the random password to something easier to remember, but it may be best if a URL could be given to a manual, which should be linked in the main menu as well. Of course, the manual needs to be written first...
Well I guess that since I kicked all of this off I'd better do something about it! I'll see what I can do about putting some instructions together!
Sorry for you Microsoft haters but it will probably be a Word document!
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Well I've got the first draft of the instructions on-line ... check them out at
http://www.athree.com/extras/instructions/index.html and let me know what you think.
I've added a link to them from the forum itself so hopefully people will send me less 'How do I post a message?' emails!
I will convert them to a more generic format in the next day or so.
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Simon,
Your instructions are great; crystal clear and very intuitively presened. I will have to steal them. []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]
[]
http://www.amdragon.com/images/eileensig.gif[/]
Why thank you!
I'll be sorting them into a more generic format tonight or tomorrow (Saturday, woooohoooo!) so that they are more easily usable.
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Great work! Looking forward to getting that put on! []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]
I just went over to WolfUK's site. Signed up as a new user, within three (3) minutes I had a email with password. It took longer to file in a profile that to get signed up.
Your user instructions are very good. If we could only following the instructions. I have not spent much time at your site, but first impression is a that appears that it will be among the great ones.
[:red]D[:orange]a[:blue]v[:green]e[:purple]A
Dave,
I just found you post - Welcome to Access All Areas!
It took three minutes to get you password? That seems a bit slow to me ... it's usually instantaneous.
I'm pleased that you like the instructions. I think that they need a bit more work but I'm sure that they will imporve over the next few days.
See you at A3!
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
I just registered on A3 and got my password in W3T-idy split time...
Muhammad Chishti
Creative dIRECTOR
[:white]
http://www.imcuniverse.com
He he ... I'm getting members from here now ... all god for tempting potential advertisers!
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Simon,
I finally got a chance to hop over to your site and check out the instructions. Excellent work! Like Eileen, I shall have to steal them.
Thankyouverymuch. []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]
Phoenix
Yes, I think I'll "base" my instructions on them as well []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]
Muhammad Chishti
Creative dIRECTOR
[:white]
http://www.imcuniverse.com
I guess that I'd better get converting them to a more generic format then!
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Ah, it's just HTML. I don't know what others think, but certainly don't do this on my account. No matter what you do, I'll still have to adapt it a bit to my site, so I may just as well start from the version you have up as any other. No reason for you to go to that trouble.
Phoenix
Too late! Here they are.
The instructions have been cut down into a fairly basic HTML format but the text is still table-based.
There are some changes that need to be made, for example, the terminology can be a bit confusing (forums and boards in particular).
Anyway, I'm going to post them in the Customising/Hacks forum with some extra notes.
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Do you mind if I include these in the main distribution? It seems that everyone has taken a liking to your instructions so this might be beneficial to everyone else. If you don't mind, will need to know what email address you want listed in the THANKS file.
As big as the THANKS file is getting I'll probably end up making a web page for it as well, something like credits or something to list all of the people who have contributed to the program.
I really do appreciate everyone's help on everything. It seems like the base WWWThreads community is starting to get a little stronger. We have had some repeat visitors for the past year like Eileen, MattyJ, Rlevant, etc. And it seems like we are getting more that visit frequently which really does help.
Splendid. That'll save us all having to do our own.
I like your other idea too. []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]
[]
http://www.amdragon.com/images/eileensig.gif[/]
No problem! I was actually going to ask how I can hack the system to include an instructions link in the links list (next to the FAQ link).
One thing you might want to look at is terminology. I think of the whole system as a forum and then boards within the forum (boards being in categories). You might want to change some of the terminology so that the whole system is referred to as a the forum software with forums being within categories. I'm not sure about this because in some areas your routines call the boards boards and in other areas they are called forums! For example, you create boards but within a board you can look at the Forum Information, after posting you Return To Forum, etc..
Please use my
[email protected] email address.
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
Yeah, I know. I guess I'm the wishy-washy type[]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]. I'll work through in the next main release and try to get everything referring to forums, instead of forums/boards/places to post/blah blah blah.
I like the instructions! yes, scream, please put them in the public release, maybe another section under the FAQ?
In any event, they are very well. []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/] Good job Simon!
Muhammad Chishti
Creative dIRECTOR
[:white]
http://www.imcuniverse.com
I'm with Eileen on this one ... I think that message boards within a forum system is a fairly accurate description.
Simon Wolf,
Webmaster,
Access All Areas
http://www.athree.com
I'm changing mine all over to discussions and forums -as in "discussion forums" ... a board is, well,
tired! And while these are messages, discussions is more friendly. Yeah, IMO.
I'm with Scream! []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]
Muhammad Chishti
Creative dIRECTOR
[:white]
http://www.imcuniverse.com