I don't wanna be a Infopop person... that is why I came here... Grrr... what are we to do the loyal users and people who would really love to help make this system grow... ARGHHH...
Ohh welll... I understand why... good luck :)
Billy S.
i will never call it UBBThreads!!! []/testimages/icons/tongue.gif[/]
i'm sorry that you have to sell this product, it's truly something that one would love to call his project...
still i understand your steps
well, at least you won't go []/testimages/icons/laugh.gif[/]
The very first forum I installed was a early version of UBB. I hated it beacuse the number of forums was limited to 10. Then I hated it more beacuse they started charging for the software. So I switched to wwwthreads 2.6, and I was one of the very first lincesed owner of wwwthreads 3.x.... well I am not feeling good about this. However as a owner of this software I wish Infopop will put some effort to make wwwthreads the best forum available.
Count me in as another dissenter! I found WWWThreads because I wanted to get away from Infopop. In evaluating various boards, I was able to dump UBB and pick up WWWThreads.
Sorry - but if this is the future - then I will not be renewing my license. Time to go hunting - there are many good boards out there these days. I will not support InfoPop.
Yeah... it´s sad that the project got to the point where it was out of your hands. []/testimages/icons/frown.gif[/]
At the same time, I guess, its good. If you cant do it alone it must be a HUGE project! And it is, that´s why we are here, and we like it. []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]
I guess most of us enjoyed being the alternative to infopop and UBB... I dont like the name because of that, but I also realize that name will probably broaden the userbase. And that I guess will be good. And if the development and all can go faster, I am happy about it. I feel sorry for you, Scream, because it was "your" project, but you are not leaving, so... good luck! []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]
Funny this happened right now... just as I was about to send you these (now for the memory) :
________ __
_ ___ ___ _/_ __/ /_ ________ ____ _____/ /____
| | /| / / | /| / / | /| / // / / __ \/ ___/ _ \/ __ `/ __ / ___/
| |/ |/ /| |/ |/ /| |/ |/ // / / / / / / / __/ /_/ / /_/ (__ )
|__/|__/ |__/|__/ |__/|__//_/ /_/ /_/_/ \___/\__,_/\__,_/____/
_______ _ _
|__ __| | | |
__ ____ ____ _| | | |__ _ __ ___ __ _ __| |___
\ \ /\ / /\ \ /\ / /\ \ /\ / / | | '_ \| '__/ _ \/ _` |/ _` / __|
\ V V / \ V V / \ V V /| | | | | | | | __/ (_| | (_| \__ \
\_/\_/ \_/\_/ \_/\_/ |_| |_| |_|_| \___|\__,_|\__,_|___/
________ __
_ ___ ___ _/_ __/ / _______ ___ ____/ /__
| |/|/ / |/|/ / |/|/ // / / _ \/ __/ -_) _ `/ _ (_-<
|__,__/|__,__/|__,__//_/ /_//_/_/ \__/\_,_/\_,_/___/
_|_|_ .__ _. _| _
\/\/\/\/\/\/|_| ||(/_(_|(_|_>
Well, I have a few concerns. First, if the development process and pace of the forum will change once InfoPop gets their hands on it. How much say will users have in the forum? I think the user's ideas, wants, needs, and contributions really set W3T apart from all other forums. I'm concerned that InfoPop might not listen to what really needs to be done with the forum, and just give us some fluff talk when genuine features aren't added, and useless or hampering features are added. This just seems to be the trend with many enterprise-level companies, which is where it seems InfoPop is headed.
What I think is a question yet to be answered is just how much control will Scream be maintaining in the buyout? It's one thing for InfoPop to provide order processing and support (but what kind of support?) but quite another if they are going to have the final say on everything to do with a product, since frankly their current products don’t interest me one bit, and I fear W3T may in time start to look and feel more and more like UBB, and then the two will just be merged into one product, which would IMO effectively end all progressive development of W3T.
One of my concerns... Are how will Infopop handle the modules and hacks users like us come up with?? I know there are alot of hacks and addons users have done and put their own time into making... Will InfoPop charge people for wanting to make addons and stuff??
I really enjoy the product and I don't want to see w3t fail :(
I can understand everyone's concerns and reservations. The UBB and new UBBThreads will be marketed as 2 individual products. Things will start to be clarified in the coming weeks, but I realize until then everyone will be a bit apprehensive.
When you are requesting features and such, I'll still be the one listening. There will be other Infopop staff around, but I will still be doing the development. The only difference now is that I will have more time to actually implement the different requests. So, the development process and pace will definitely change, but for the better[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/].
Infopop didn't want to buy the product to make it into a UBB clone. They saw the potential for it and believe that together we really can make this into leading forum solution.
What about the pricing plan in the future? Would that be the same as the current price? Or it will be as expensive as the rest of UBB product?
I hate to say, but the reason I use WWWThreads ONLY because the developer knows what he is doing. And the code is clean enough to extend on it. And I hope the code base will be as clean as what it is right now as more developers work on "UBBThreads".....
There are a couple of developers work on Vbulletin. If you take a look at the code, it is less than desire to hack on it...
Hi everyone-
I can't give you too many details because we have not even formally announced this ourselves yet, but I can tell you that Scream's description of things is perfectly accurate.
Rick will be able to spend even more time developing Threads and he will have many more resources at his disposal. Whether you like the UBB or not (and you are certainly entitled to your opinion), we at Infopop have the largest number of customers in the message board business and that fact will really help make Threads a more influential program.
One of the major reasons I wanted to do this deal was because Rick (Scream) and I have a lot in common- including a long history developing message boards and a focus on innovation. As we talked, we realized that this deal made perfect sense for everyone.
I sense that some of the concerns being voiced are because you feel really close to Rick. I can only tell you that Rick will still be front and center with Threads and that we are determined to keep the program as exciting for each of you as it currently is.
Ted O'Neill
CEO, Infopop Corporation
Rick,
I sincerely hope that things work out for you and us. I have my personal reservations but I also understand where you are coming from and why you need to do this.
My major concern is how licensing will work. Infopop seems to charge a lot for not very much at the moment and, being a private webmaster rather than having corporate or financial backing, I don't want to see prices spiral out of control. Can we all renew our licenses this weekend?[]/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]
Yeah - my concern is not Rick - my concern is Infopop and the way the company treats people and the astronomical amount of money they charge for nothing.
It's INfopop I won't support - not Scream. I would rather pay more here and keep Infopop out of the equation.
Sorry Ted - seen too much of Infopop's crap to be willing to go right back into that fray. And marcom stating that you are the biggest/best/whatever does not make it true.
Good luck!
I won't support Infopop. And that's not going to change.
Ted and Rick,
I think I know what everone's concern is... It isn't we arn't going to get a good product especially since we know Rick will still be the head programer...
The issue is that we have come to enjoy working with Rick and his prices are very fair and understand... Especially for those of us who run a non-profit web site and all money spent on the web site comes from our pockets..
I do think Infopop will be able to help support the w3t system... However one of the biggest advantages w3t has had... was the community support. The people who use the product are more then willing to help each other out and new people out as well. We don't want to lose that.
I know I really don't want a product where if I have questions or suggestions it takes 20 people to decide on weather to answer it or take the suggestion and grow with it... Currently it is 1 person who makes all the choices I believe... I currently work for the government... and watch all the loops they have to go through just to get an i with a dot above it is a pain in the butt.
What I would really suggest you all do before you announce this merger offically is come up with an FAQ or something explianing what is going to happen... What changes Infopop will do that will change the way the software is developed. Also come out with a reasonable pricing system.
There is alot that needs explaining cause I know alot of us who use w3t are using it cause it is the better product out there for BBS/Forum systems. I had the choice of going with UBB... But I don't like how it works... I had a choice of using YABB but... I wanted something that was good... What I am affraid of is losing this product and it as someone else has said... yes in the begining being 2 seperate product but in the end going down to 1 product leaving most of us wanting something better...
That is my 2 cents... I will continue to use w3t and will continue to call it w3t... I will watch how the merger will go... but if it does look like it goes down hill... I wont hesitate to pull out and find something else if not create something on my own. So Rick... keep up the great work and Ted... Please attempt to understand where most of us come from and realize we had a choice of going with UBB or W3T and we picked W3T...
Billy S.
Hi Datal-
Thank you for your thoughtful comments. There will definitely be a lot more information released over the next few days, which will hopefully allow everyone to evaluate the changes in full context.
Who is InfoPop's target client for UBBThreads? Same or different than the target client for UBB?
Why would the product be called Ultimate Bulletin Board Threads? If you're going to change the name, why not think up something completely different that will make it clear to everyone that it is in fact a completely different product than UBB. I think you're going to shoot down a lot of potential customers who don't like UBB or anything InfoPop puts out (many of the W3T users are of that opinion, from what I've gathered over the past few years) if you call it simply 'UBBThreads'. If the name of the product is the first impression on a potential customer, and they don't like UBB, they're probably not even going to want to hear your pitch, as the name UBBThreads suggests (to me anyway) that it's a product similar to UBB.
This is another example of the differences we fear. If a name were to be chosen for W3T, I'm pretty sure Scream would ask users to make suggestions, we'd vote on it, etc. Would you be prepared to take user suggestions or allow users to vote on a name for the forum? While you and Scream would have the final say (just as Scream would in the past), it would let you know what the people who are actually going to buy your product want to see it called. Many of us run our own websites and web businesses, and together we can understand issues relating to forums as well as any corporate strategy team.
Like I said, user input along with Scream's superlative technical skills is what made W3T what it is. We'd hate to see half of that get chopped off when InfoPop is at the helm.
I was surprised at the mail I received this morning to say the least. But I am going to remain reserved in my judgments until some kind of reaction is necessitated.
I consider myself lucky because I never had to go through a UBB phase. I never liked the board, and I came right to W3T and myself and my users have enjoyed it ever since.
I don't believe for a second Scream would make any decision to jeopardize a project which has been his baby for over 5 years. I trust him to make the best decision for himself, W3T and, most importantly, for us.
If InfoPop can provide him with a larger development staff and a shorter generation time, I'm all for it, especially if that allows the incorporation of the essential features we've been needing for a long time.
However, I like many others, am wary of the change in business practices. Regardless of how good the product is in the future, if I have to pay 100 dollars a year and still not own the product, it's simply not worth it. One of the greatest benefits of W3T as it stands is its licensing. Even if you don't want to pay anymore, that W3T v3.0 is still yours, and you're welcome to hack it up as long as you need. And that puts the power in the hands of the end-user.
And when it comes down to it, thats what W3T is all about. Power and flexibility for the admin and for the users. I'll keep my fingers crossed that when the dust settles, it will still be the product we've all come to love and support.
Will this mean that a professional gfx/layout/design person or company will be brought in to further beef up the interface/gfx? Will Rick/the community have influence into the final layout/appearance/features of the forum? Will user hacks be looked into and - if suitable - merged into the main tree? Will the release cycle get slowed down?
Hmm... I guess a faq with all questions posted in this thread is needed badly
And will this board be going away as of Monday? That may be the most important question.
I´ll never give Infopop my money! F*U*C*K* the stupid software from infopop.
Is there a way to get the rest of my paid money back? Because I don´´t want that that stupid guys get a cent from me...
Bugs are easy to find and adding new features is simple by someone like me who can PHP and SQL...
can´t realize that you did this scream :((((
Hope they paid you a good penny for the rights to wwwt Scream, this is such a superior forum compaired to others out there. []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]
Congrats on the last 5 years, and the making of one of the best forums out there.
Razvan-
No, the release cycle will not slow down. If anything, this will give Rick more time to develop the program. We (at Infopop) have always incorporated customer feedback into the overall design of our products, and that will continue as well.
Two examples from our own history- smilies and topic icons. Infopop was the first to add these features, but they were suggested by our users.
All I can say is... I'm surprised, to say the least... shocked is more like it... and disappointed. I'll have to see how things will be going. Otherwise, I'll definitely stick with what I have now and continue to build on it with my hacks and hacklets. Sorry, but I absolutely HATE UBB and the likes, which is why I came to W3T. If this turns out to be a merger of the two, I seriously doubt I will go with that. And the support here with Scream has been so excellent... I seriously doubt that it will be the same. Sorry.
what are you telling us????
Here are some questions... why don´t you answer??? Whats with the price? Your Ubb is so bad for me and the price is so high... NEVER... I´ll NEVER would by this kind of software (is it software or is it a real great sourcecode adventure?)
what is with the lot of addons / hacks of the users???
thats the things I´m interested in....
a very sad
Dino
Thing about the smilies... my users say they are gay looking and asked me to get rid of them... so I don't really use that part :-P
Hi Ted, my question is what is your position regarding the PHP version ? Will you still support it as Rick does now ?
Will it still keep the parallel release policy ?
Thanks.
I'm also interested in the free version, and if it will still be offered.
I realize that everyone has alot of questions. That is pretty natural with the change. It's the same as when I decided to start charging for the product a few years back. Everyone's questions will get answered. I'll be able to answer alot of these myself this evening when I get home.
I will say this now. I never would have done this deal if I didn't think it was best for everyone involved. Those of you that have been with me for some time know that current users have always been very important to me. Honestly, the main reason I did this is because I wanted more time to devote to the actual coding of the program.
I guess our biggest concern is because we feel Rick is "one of us".
When one goes to infopop.com, it does not have a personality feel at all, its a feeling of Business to customer. That is fine, it´s business afterall... but I guess we would hate to lose that personal touch w3t has.
W3T has that personal touch of a community of users (even though it has only one developer) that attracts people who like to modify/change/add/hack the forum and help in the development... We know Scream is the one behind it, so we help in. But would we help into a product that a company such as Microsoft develops? No! We wouldnt like to help in, we would just complain about what works different from how we thought it should. Now... InfoPop is not microsoft... but it does send us a much greater "business" feeling that could make us less happy to contribute.
Scream seems to say it will not change in that sense, that he will continue to request user feedback and so on... and I believe him, so I am happy and confident about that.
But what will others see? Even though Scream continues to listen to us, maybe even more... will new users really get that feeling, as to even be willing to contribute? I will continue to support it as I know Rick is behind it. But I just wonder... though in theory it might continue the same... will the users still feel as we do now? I guess it might just be psicological... but we´ve got psicological brains... I guess. []/testimages/icons/crazy.gif[/]
Anyway... I support Scream in whatever decission he makes in regards to what is best. He seems to think this is best, so its best.
I find this unexpected from the infopop people. Interesting decisions ted, i think this will make the already excellent software grow!
MTO-
Yes, I understand your concerns. Perhaps some background on me might help ease your concerns.
I wrote the UBB back in 1996. At the time the dominant message board was Matt Wright's WWWBoard (not to be confused with WWWThreads
). Like WWWThreads, the UBB was freeware for quite a long time- until the spring of 1998.
I was the sole developer of UBB until mid-way through 1999, a back-seat driver for about six months, then sole developer again until this past spring. Like Rick, for many years I was the only one programming, handling support, and all of the other duties that go with maintaining a vibrant community and business. In other words, you are talking to the choir.
It is true that Infopop is a much bigger operation now than it was a couple of years ago. It is also true that we have some higher-end services that are targeted to a more "expensive" client. We have never lost touch with our core customers, however, and if you look at our own support forums you will see a large, vibrant community.
I look forward to the challenge of winning the support and trust of each of you. I hope you will discover that I am as approachable as Rick and that Rick and I share similar sensibilities. We want one thing- to create the very best products. We also share some other values- such as treating each customer with respect, focusing on innovation and not imitation, and relentlessly improving.
I want to drop in a post a combination welcome/assurance. My place at Infopop is with OpenTopic, the hosted message board solution. I remember when OpenTopic was announced everyone worried that UBB would fall by the wayside and be ignored by Infopop. In fact, UBB flourished. These days, I'm the one under pressure to keep up with the UBB.
Over the last weeks as we talked about this move, I spent a lot of time lurking here and installing my own W3T. There is a tremendous plus for Infopop because the product *is* different and the development community is passionate about making the best product out there. Yes, there will be changes with this move. But the fundamental character of this product will stay strong. It mattered as much to as as it does to you that Scream is directly involved.
I do appreciate the anxiety about what will happen. It's natural. But I ask that you give us at Infopop a fair chance too. We're very excited about what the future holds.
I was really surprised to read this news. Sure, there had to be a change to give Rick more time for development. I hope this is the right way. I'm not sure...
I'm worried the price will change (increase of course). In the other thread I just read the licensing will change, too. For the future I only know I'm not going to pay these prices listed on the infopop site for my non-commercial use. I can't afford this.
I just read the email and I am shocked. I switched from UBB 3 years ago. I ran the free version of w3t for almost a year and then bought a license. What turned me off the most about UBB was the attitude of the moderators of their forums. There was so many flamefests nobody could get any kind of help and the moderators never helped things because they allowed it to go on. I didn't want to be involved with a community and give my hard earned dollars over to a comapany that would allow the things that happened on their support forum to happen. Granted I haven't visited the UBB forum in a long time and things might have changed, but, I still have a bad taste from some of the things that I seen over there.
Another reason I switched was that as my forum grew UBB put a strain on the server.
I'm afraid I will have to say goodbye. I just renewed my license and I will continue to use w3t until it is time to pay the yearly upgrade fee. After that I will probably switch to another forum software or finish the coding of my own forum package.
Rick, I wish you the best and I'm sure this move was in your best interest and I know you would never do anything to tear down what you have built. I am however afraid that Infopop might not hold up to the standards you set.
Thanks for the memories.
"One of the major reasons I wanted to do this deal was because Rick (Scream) and I have a lot in common- including a long history developing message boards and a focus on innovation."
Forgot to add something to this, have we, Mr O'Neill?
"I look forward to the challenge of winning the support and trust of each of you."
Carry on looking forward ... cause you aint getting my support or trust.
The loyal users have been my main reason for the continued development of the product over the past few years. Hopefully, the loyal users will stick around because I truly believe the best is yet to come[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/].
Thanks, it has been fun building this up to where it is now. I'm hoping this will take us to the next step. There really is so much more that can be done with the scripts as you can see from the thousands of posts on the feature request board[]/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]
I think they should call it Scream Forums.
Blahh I just left UBB over a year ago because they wanted to charge me some ungodly amount of money to renew my liscense so I could upgrade to a product I bought and paid for.. NOT LEASED. I found much more functionality here with W3T and the price was proper for non-compiled source ware. There has to be another way.. I own a liscense and I don't want to see a its time to renew notice wheres your $275 bucks..
Bottom line - whats it gonna cost? I run 2 non profit liscenses one for a union and one for kids K-6 wrestling - I need to know the bottom line. I notice there seems to be no talk of it so I assume it will increase if I choose to stick with this software?
How Much?
I don't want to sound harsh but in the last year or so every single site i've known using ubb switched to vb. Since I don't watch the ubb forums closely I can't say this for sure but I can only presume it has something to do with users asking for database/php support and (for one reason or another) not receiving it. Of course, the fact that vb has an import script from ubb is another reason...
From Infopop's point of view wwwthreads could be just the thing it needes to become again the market leader, since it has some unique features -- including but not limited to database/php/threads -- not available in ubb. Of course, one can try to guess where the prices will end just by looking at the actual prices of ubb (which lacks above said features). It will also be interesting to see what will happen to ubb/it's price after the fall sale discount which ends on oct 14.
Only time will tell how and where is wwwthreads (or 'Threads' as it is refered now) going. I'm still willing to contribute translations / ideeas / fixes / hacks to Scream if that will be allowed and user input will be taken into account like it is now. I hope that this merger will prove to be one step forward -- if not, well... nothing is ireplaceable: neither the customers nor the software.
In reply to:
Since I don't watch the ubb forums closely I can't say this for sure but I can only presume it has something to do with users asking for database/php support and (for one reason or another) not receiving it. Of course, the fact that vb has an import script from ubb is another reason...
And this could be why Infopop is interested in the first place. They pissed quite a few folks off over the last few years making promises they couldn't keep. This was one of those promises. Some of their heavy-handedness and their absolutely outrageous pricing with little support is another.
Rick I wish you well. I have sent a few folks over here over the years. I really like the software. But I don't like it enough to support an unethical company or to line the pockets of folks that don't want to put the people first. Personally, I think you might have been able to work this out differently - but it's your software, your choice. I hope it works out for you and you don't just get swallowed up whole and lost in the process.
I'm hoping that by the time most of everyone's upgrade contracts are expired everyone will see the benefits of this. All of you have been very supportive over the past couple of years and I don't want to disappoint any of you. For that reason I really do hope everyone gives this a chance so I can prove that this is for the better.
Scream... You have my support... And I will do something that I may or may not regret... but hey... If you need any help in some type of developement on the Perl side... please ask... I am a Perl Developer for a living and if you have looked at any of my hacks I have done you will see I am not a beginner and I kind of know what I am doing most of the time...
So... if you need help just ask and you got it... I really enjoy using your system... and yes I know I am probably one of the newer subscribers but that is mainly I didn't get the MySQL for my site until recently... but I have been using your system on shadowbane.com site for about 2 years now... so...
Well there you go... Good luck...
Billy S.
Well well well...
The infamous email seems to have eluded my email address, and the vemenous reply by some of you is at least partially shared by myself. It's simply a knee-jerk reaction to the situation, not because we are suddenly non-supportive of Scream.
Yup, you infopop folks will need to deal with the chaos that naturally occurs at times like this. I've developed not a liking nor a disliking for you, I suppose you'll earn either in the coming weeks. I've never dealt with UBB directly except where it involved W3T in some fashion (conversion scripts, which we've had a lot of requests for, etc.), but I've dealt plenty with Rick and he's always shined. I have to believe this decision, even though I don't completely understand it, is the best one - there may be some details I'm not privy to.
As for those of you angry / upset (choose your adjective) over this decision, my request is that you hold that in check long enough to see how these fellas earn our trust. This is of course up to you, but those are my plans.
Strategically, UBB has been a weaker (in terms of backend capabilities), more froo froo, easier to install program, the latter point being a significant selling point. Marketing W3T seems like a good "heavy traffic" alternative for its customers. I'm in complete agreement that it's an unwise decision to take on the stigma of UBB to W3T - image is a VERY important factor in marketing. I'd either stick with WWWThreads or name it something entirely new - naming it UBBThreads implies it's going to be like UBB, which is what you all have said is not going to happen, aside from a few minor consistencies. See the contradiction?
Reconsider the name...
There will be a lot of motivation on the part of Infopop to keep as many of you loyal customers as they can. I for one will stay on the boat because of Scream. If in the process they show themselves as worthy of my loyalties, then I will try to be as helpful for them as I have for W3T.
I looked long and hard before picking wwwthreads and while I fully understand Screams need to do this, I do have my reservations. I am due to renew by the end of the month and was planning to this weekend. Now I will be holding off to see what Infopop comes up with.
I just visited their site and support forum and am not overly impressed.
I will reserve judgement till monday but they will need to do something a lot different than what they are doing now for me to switch over.
Yeah. Excatly right. The success of UBB and vb I think is the layout and graphics. Phorum has been around for a long time but never take off because the layout design is poor (IMHO).
Let's consider getting the Infopop guys to make many many sets of good w3t themes (and I know they are going to charge for it - that's why I don't like them, I'd rather code it myself) and I think people will start to realise how much better w3t is comparing to UBB.
And I really do think if there is a flatfile db version of w3t that have all the features but doesn't require mySQL, no one will want to look at UBB. []/testimages/icons/tongue.gif[/]
im lookin foward to this
ive been a happy user of UBB for years now and i think this is a good idea *waits to be flamed*
:/ i notive many people askin about hacks so i decided to post this
. tho infopop dosent have a hack forum on there main suport site there are a few running
.
www.ubbdev.com is one of the bigger ones out there, im sure w3t hack coul dbe imported to the site or start one of there own if infopop wouldent make a main hack forum
. well only time will tell....
I guess I'll stick my two cents in... I chose w3t for 1 reason. THREADS. This was absolutely essential to me. There are too few choices that support this. UBB doesn't, VBulletin has been adamant that they won't and I haven't seen anything else that is really worthy, and I don't mind paying for software that gives me value. What I see is interesting about this is: This whole decision follows gossamer-threads introduction of their own forum software. And with their Links and Webmail now out and their intent to drive home a one-stop community software shop, and of course their pretty solid reputation, they will be a player, probably one that should concern both UBB and W3T. Their pricing is on the high end, but usually well worth it from what I have seen. Everything is modular and template driven and I really am waiting for them to release their beta of the forum software and pricing.
I popped in over at ubb's site and here's where I see issues. Obviously there is the pricing issue. But beyond that, you have flat file ubb or an oracle hosted app. Oracle isn't mysql, they are different and how many of us can afford oracle licenses... or want to when mysql works so well. I don't use php so I don't really care about that, but mod_perl is critical to me, and I don't see that either. And then comes the really big issue of threaded views. How will they handle all of that? I don't know.
And as for hacking, what is an "Official" hacking site... From a community perspective, I'd compare their support forums to the ones here, but both fall short of what's over at vbulletin. Not just for hacking, but for really getting the software to kick a** on whatever platform you are on through optimization, tuning, etc... To me that is so much more critical than anything above and beyond base features, and to be honest I've not been satisfied with the scalability of this application, I've expressed that before and I don't like the answer "you'll need to buy another server, that's what all of our big clients have done." Unfortunately for me vbulletin has been pretty adamant in their statements that they will not support threaded views. And the only thing left that I've seen is phorum.org and I'd really rather have a mod_perl app than a php one. I've already hired a mysql programmer to rewrite code, optimize queries, etc... and I think we have made a lot of good strides, but we still have a ways to go... And now I guess I feel a bit better about that decision frankly. It's the right one for me, but probably not for others.
I can understand folks reactions in being upset, and I sympathize with you. The way the internet economy has gone, the last thing everyone needs is prices going up while revenue is going down. But remember, if you paid for a license to w3t, you still have that license, the annual fee you pay is for upgrades. you can keep using it, you just won't have access to upgrades. But my guess is most of you have so manyhacks built in, that if you couldn't add another one in, you could live with that if you had to.
A thought for some folks, maybe someone like Eileen would be willing to set up a forum on their site in case this one just disappears (which considering everything wouldn't surprise me). That way if folks still wanted to continue using what they paid for, there would be a place to discuss it and I think a few of you have forums to talk about w3t already, so another woudn't be a big deal, Eileen's is just the first one that came to my mind since I've actually been to that one once or twice.
Right now, my initial reaction is I have my licenses for the software, I'll continue to use them and until I clearly see something better come along, I just won't have access to upgrades. In the meantime we'll get this puppy screaming (no pun intended) on our own, and basically have our own personal development branch. I can live with that... I have all along... And if ubb puts the resources behind to really make it a scalable and competitive application, I'm happy to look at it.
Until then, I wish you all the best with your decisions and your boards/communities and I hope that ubb comes up with the right answers to all of your very good questions... make them work like sons of you-know-what's to earn your trust, and more importantly, your business... And Scream, I hope this match is everything you expect it will be, good luck.
Late
-------
Just as I finished this, I popped back over to gossamer-threads.com and the new version is posted in beta and the price will be $200 for commercial use - I'm downloading now... :)
It seems that Rick is going to be worked at Infopop and along with his product WWWThreads Pro, right?
I don't think that Infopop will keep those two familiar softwares running on a similar market base. There should be many different features and new goals but not just made both UBB/WWWThreads Pro the forum scripts.
So does WWWThreads remains to be a community but not another UBB clone or UBB-like forum software?
And what I've concerned is the performance and quality. Will it be better or worst? Since UBB did getting worst when it grows.
I can't say its all bad. Its just we had it very good with a great product and a direct line to the MAN
. I just upped for one extra year of upgrades so I am good for a while. One way to lock in your upgrade costs now. I am good till 2004 and if there is something that is much more appealing by then well I will just have to check it out
. I have a feeling Scream will keep us the best and sharpest threads around !
>>maybe someone like Eileen would be willing to set up a forum on their site
Yes, I already have my W3T Hacks board - I could easily expand, unless 6Pack coverts his site to handle all of it.
Like you I'm going to wait and observe what happens before I decide what to do for the future.
I thought this is a good news (at least to me not all that bad) since W3T is going commericial for a period of time, it need some more professional service/support. I thought that was the reason Rick decided to sold it out to Infopop to at least provide a better service to his customers and all friends support him for years at W3T.
At least I thought Rick is still the leader of this product and promised to keep working on it. It might change the name (althoght I don't think it's a good idea to rename to UBBThreads), but it will not be vanished. And I hope the quality, performance, and sincerity that Rick had brought will never be affected.
Scream Forums would be a great name! []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]
My 2 pennies:
I am an ex Infopop customer- I hold three licences for their products- none of which they use- I use another product now.
So here is what IMVHO you guys can expect:
* 1 overtly racist moderator on the support forums
* Forum members membership removed if they ask 'difficult' questions (Hi Dave)
* Slow development (Unless they allow Rick to do his thing - well see
* Buggy beta code tested on releases to the public
* Astonishing licence agreements
This is a sad announcement for all users of wwwthreads I wish you all all the best in the future.
It's not going to be pleasant
Long time user, I don't post much here.
Heck I am so old I have a space in my user name :)
Infopop is going to uphold the existing license we bought the software under?Correct? If I read the letter correctly.
I do not see why everyone is upset....
Just keep what you got and don't update to the infopop version if you have problems dealing with infopop. Unless I am missing something their is no time periods in the current license so you can hack and use your existing forum forever without giving infopop a cent.
I trust Rick in making this change and I know it will all turn out for the better.
>>As for those of you angry / upset (choose your adjective) over this decision, my request is that you hold that in check long enough to see how these fellas earn our trust. This is of course up to you, but those are my plans.<<
I gave them a chance for a whole year. What I encountered when I visited there forum was not for me. Thankfully I never needed support when I used UBB. While I don't pretend to be a perl programmer it is similiar enough to C that I was able to work out the problems that came up when I ran UBB. I also know bad coding technique when I see it and UBB was not the best coded app I seen and I see thousands of lines of code everyday. I seen people post asking for help with a problem and either the reply made it sound like the customer was wasting the support persons time and if the person asking didn't fully understand how to fix a problem and posted again they would be met with a unpleasant response almost to the point of telling the user they are too stupid to use the product.
Read David_Campbell's post above and you'll get a little of what used to go on over there. I had no idea that it still goes on.
After thinking on this for the last 24 hours I have decided that since I own a license and am free to use w3t for as long as I want I will continue to do so until I finish the forum project I started last year. I never upgraded my forum that often anyway. It was a pain to add in the hacks and changes I made. I ran 4.0 until 5.0 came out and ran 5.0 until 5.2b1 of PHP. I just upgraded to 5.4.4 PHP and my users love it and it has all the features my community needs. If a feature is suggested I will just add it myself. I gave Infopop a chance before they were Infopop and I won't do it again. The old saying, once bitten, twice shy.
This is nothing against Rick. I believe Ricks work is the best forum package out. Since I first switched over I noticed that he was a hands on kind of guy and always was quick to help you out with a problem. I only hope that you continue giving the kind of support the users here have come to know. I know if you have your way you will. Lets only hope they don't shove you off in a corner and tell you to code the product and leave the rest to us. Good luck to you. I have a feeling you just might need it.
Howdy from Texas :)
My name is Allen Ayres, a moderator at infopop's support forum and admin at ubbdev. Just wanted to welcome you guys to the IP community. I don't speak for them and don't always agree with everything they say/do, but in getting to know the people that work there I can say they are good people and offer the best support of any Internet Community Company presently in existence. You'll find present support at Infopop's forums are pleasant and helpful - check the Win32 Install forum
The official Infopop installation and technical support, while not cheap, is fast, efficient, and professional.
David Campbell has been banned from infopop and ubbdev forums for his attitude and consistent posting of flames. Take his posts here for what it's worth.
I know Infopop people are currently trying to contact people here to work together in putting an "official threads" hacking community together. Charles is an important part of ours and I don't see why Rick can't remain an important part of yours.
Anyways, enough.. have a good weekend and welcome again.
In reply to:
Just keep what you got and don't update to the infopop version if you have problems dealing with infopop. Unless I am missing something their is no time periods in the current license so you can hack and use your existing forum forever without giving infopop a cent.
Infopop has a history of not keeping their word when it comes to previous licensing. I've seen it before, been there, done that. They don't keep their word and it's the users that suffer.
My absolute dislike of this entire situation is from personal experience with Infopop. It's not an experience I wish to repeat.
Eileen, In view of the FAQ just recently posted and ubb not supporting perl and the forums moving shortly, can you get together with 6Pack and one of of you (or someone else) please set up a board for those of us who will now be left out in the cold with our perl versions... I'd really like to see someone do this and have a URL announced ASAP so we have somewhere to go. I realize that ubb said they would have one, however, if I'm not going to be using their product, why in the world would I want to be on their site? If necessary I can probably find a domain name I'm not using actively and set up something, but time is not my best friend these days. Thx...
The forum that is getting setup will be run by the same people that run the UBBDev site. Ted can correct me if I am wrong but this isn't actually an Infopop site, it's run by others. This will focus on hacks for both versions and I plan on exporting the current customizing forums and put import them into the new site.
No, I'm going to wait and see how things develop.
Anything I do will be done on my own Board at Amdragon.
In reply to:
David Campbell has been banned from infopop and ubbdev forums for his attitude and consistent posting of flames. Take his posts here for what it's worth.
Ubb people. You guys can find time to come here and personally insult people and yet you don't answer nor address other serious issues people have raised... Such as your constant price increases and your heavy-handed censorship.
It won't be long now before infopop start deleting posts and disallow ANY criticism. They will never change.
I don't speak for UBB™ or Infopop, but Ted does and he posted a nice FAQ here:
http://www.wwwthreads.com/perl/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=feedback&Number=42358
long before your post about them not answering questions I believe.
No insult was intended for Mr. Campbell
> Reconsider the name...
There is ABSOLUTELY no way I'm calling any of my scripts "ubbthreads" []/testimages/icons/smile.gif[/]
seb
UBBThreads is a strange name. You would think that they'd want a different name from their existant products because this move diversifies the product line. The name 'wwwthreads' does have problems with having too many w's, and being similar to wwwboard (ack!).
I think they should call it W3Threads.
I call it w3t :-)
If it contains UBB anywhere it's not going on my website :-p
Sebastien.
Face it guys, I think InfoPop has already made the decision and regardless of how many people don't like the name... it's going to be caled UBBThreads.
Maybe so, but if they value money they will listen to their customers!
seb
I'm with Eileen on how things turn out, but Scream is good enough to keep hosting my boards, and my decisions on what will be offered will be in part on what infopop wants and what I want and what Scream wants, since there is going to be a team going on, like it or not.
We'll have several alternatives though, so don't feel left out in the cold, whether it be Eileen or me or whoever else is interested in setting something up.
My suspicion is that Infopop will come through with this though, which is why I'm sort of waiting to see what happens. I really don't see much of a difference between what you have and what you'll be getting, but if there is... yeah, I'll figure out something. []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]
I'm glad someone piped up for UBB []/testimages/icons/laugh.gif[/]. Welcome aboard, or maybe it should be you telling us that.
Regardless, greets.
I'm afraid that is true as it may involve copyrights, trademarks and stuff like that which is already in place. However, reconsidering the decision -- if possible -- would make a very good first example of how this company is listening to the already established customer base of this fine product ;)
My personal opinion: if UBB stands for "Ultimate Bulletin Board", then, "UBBThreads" would translate to "Ultimate Bulletin Board Threads" which doesn't make sense and has nothing to do with UBB as they are completely different products. Not only is this (IMHO) misleading but it has the potential to make some people jumpy (from what I've seen here and from some who used said software and shared their feelings in this matter with me).
Now bussiness is bussines so if this rename thing is unavoidable from a legal standpoint, fine. As I said earlier, I will support Rick as much as I can, unless I come to the conclusion that w3t does not serve the purpose for which was created (or if you deny me access to the community -- whichever comes first).
Yes, I agree! But, I doubt that. Hope they prove me wrong...
They won't change their mind about the name. They have been promising their users a "UBBThreads" version with a SQL backend for years now and have never delivered. This is their delivery. They couldn't develop it for whatever reason themselves, so they bought someone else's and are renaming it.
It's just business folks. Give them your credit card number and shut up - that's about all you are to them.
In reply to:
We have never lost touch with our core customers, however, and if you look at our own support forums you will see a large, vibrant community.
Ted,
I'm curious--are you still censoring posts that are critical of UBB as well as censoring any mention of competing products on your forums (and, no, I'm not somebody you censored, just an observer)? How can you claim you have "never lost touch with our core customers" if you put duct tape over their mouths? When I was looking for forum software (over a year ago) I found this to be very disturbing and it was a major factor (along with technical inferiority of UBB) in writing off UBB as an option. Everywhere I looked (outside of the InfoPop site) there were tons of ex-UBB users who were unhappy with support, upgrades, pricing, etc.
Rick,
Best wishes. I hope things turn out the way you expected. Sadly, I'm not very optimistic.
P.S. I didn't get an email about this merger (sixpack isn't the only one). Maybe it was because I didn't renew my upgrade license when it expired recently, but I would have thought that everyone would have been emailed about something of this magnitude.
To answer my portion of this question. I used the email address from your customer information page in the licensed users area. It looks like many never changed their email address from when they originally ordered so this would explain why some of you didn't get the email.
My email address hasn't changed. Maybe a hiccup somewhere...
Hmm, possibly. I've got all of my bounces saved and didn't see one for your email address on record so I assumed it went through. At least it must have went through to somebody.
I am a new kid here on this block. I got my first W3T license on Oct. 9, 2001, 3 days b4 the announcement, and I just found out about the sale yesterday, so I am still trying to digest it.
Has anyone put up an independant W3T board so we can talk freely about it? If so please let me know.
I think 'talk freely' will be a thing of the past once this gets under infopoops control.
--
When the first word is censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, the first link is forged, and it chains us all forever.
......
I am sure you will not. You have done a good job and I am sure you will keep doing a good job.