First off, let's try to keep this on topic and productive, no need to flame anyone in here, just exchange information.

Ted, my question is regarding the way Scream currently maintains his license agreements. Are you going to honor all our licenses that hold over the date you take ownership of wwwthreads, and do you have any idea how much it will cost us to renew our licenses?

Well in the e-mail from Scream, he mentioned...

[:green]And those of you who have special licenses that don't expire, these will still be honored by Infopop.

Doesn't totally answer the question, but I'd also like to know, as well as any change in the license agreement.

Don't want to see it become a "must renew to use" program, or a monthly/yearly fee. Plus the "one license per domain" rule is very fair and I'd love to see that maintained.

Hi Raven-

Yes, all current agreements will be honored. The actual license agreement will look more like our own when the switchover occurs, however.

As for renewals (or what we call Member Area subscriptions), we will announce pricing soon. We are actually re-evaluating all of our pricing as we add Threads to our overall product mix.

I'm sorry that I cannot be more specific at this moment. The complete summary of changes will be announced very soon.

Thanks for the info! I understand why you can't be more specific, there's probably a lot of details yet to be ironed out.

Will UBB code be intigrated into wwwthreads, kind of a 'best of both worlds' approch, or will wwwthreads be seperate from your other products?

Threads will be a separate product, but we WILL be trying to create some standards across all of our products (for consistency). You mentioned UBBCode, and yes that would be one area we have already discussed coordinating so that we have a standard of some kind.

There are also some terminology things that may need to be addressed, if only so that we do not confuse different customers on our site. For instance, Rick refers to the personal settings area as a "Control Panel" in 3WT. We use that term to refer to the admin area.

These are minor points, though. :)

The differences in the products are as important as the similarities, however. For instance, we are excited about the fact that Threads offers both threaded and linear views, while we have no plans to make UBB "threaded".

Threads has its own flavor, its own style. I've been in Rick's shoes and I know I would be upset if a stranger tried to tinker with my recipe. We are very sensitive to that. We think Threads can maintain its character while making some subtle adjustments to address certain "platform" issues.

hm...I think it is impotant for us to know if it will be allowed to add hacks in our boards in the future in the way we did it until now.....

I believe, since ubb allows hacks, that ubbthreads will also allow hacking it.

Hi there. ;)

Ted and MichaelF have already chimed in, so I suppose I should also.

Hello, my name is Charles Capps, and I'm the programmer currently maintaining the UBB. I'm also a long time code hacker, which is actually how I got the job. :D

I assure you, Threads will continue to be hackable. We are currenly in the process of working with the "official" UBB code hacking site, UBBDev, to contact the leaders of the Threads hacking community to set up a new, dedicated "official" Threads hacking site.

This will be a change from how things work now - the existing code hacking forum here will be retired. Unfortunately, it's almost always difficult to support hacked boards due to the nature of the changes. It would look quite silly for us to insist that you shouldn't hack your board so we can fix it if things go wrong, while we offer a code hacking forum! :)

I am REALLY looking forward to working with the hacking community.

I'm sorry, I never introduced myself. ;)
My name is MasterMind, you'll find out my real name eventually. I am one of the support moderators and programmers at ubbdev, ubb's official hacking website. I've been using UBB for about 2 years now. I've admired some of the additional functionality of threads for a few months, since i found the URL here.

I hope to be developing hacks for threads when its appropriate.

-Greg

Hacking up perl scripts is fine and dandy, but many of us run the PHP version of this forum. I'm curious what kind of support is in place, or will be in place, to support the PHP W3T. Does Infopop have a PHP staff, or any community devoted to PHP coding or hacking? Or will the PHP version be at a gross disadvantage from being introduced into an otherwise traditionally CGI -based environment?

Thanks for your time.

The code hacking community will be home to both the perl and php versions.

Ted, is there any schedule & plan on the upcoming version of W3T (or say UBBThreads)?

[:blue]The code hacking community will be home to both the perl and php versions. :)

That's a fine idea IMO.

Of course you won't get any support if your board is modified

Does that include no support even on the part you don't touch??

I don't know about that... Rick has always been helpful with tracking down issues, even if they were caused by a hack... not only that, there are several members of this community who are very active in that arena... I can't see that changing.

I would have to say, as a caveat, that I can see where the official Infopop standpoint might be, Hacks will not be supported... they have to say that... they didn't write the hack... someone else did... if it's not part of the official release, well... the push should be to get it into the official release (like the current private messaging system and address book...).

An analogy... I bought a PC from Gateway, added a couple of cards, zip drive, etc... it died. []/testimages/icons/frown.gif[/] When I called support, they had me pull all of the devices that I had added in and walked me through everything until my 'Original Configuration' was working again. Then, they were done. They advised me that if I added in any additional hardware, they were responsible only for supporting the original configuration.

Our advantage here is that we have people who are willing to help you out because they enjoy it and enjoy using and expanding the product. Again, I do not see that changing in the future.

Enjoy!

Matt

Hey Matt... Same thing with ISP's... God for bead if you say your using an OS like W2K Server... They seem to freak out...

or tell your @home provider that you are using a Linux box... []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/]

Matt

Hey Matt. If Infopop did that way, it's not a good news for all of us since the sincerity of Rick had become part of the property of W3T. Many of you (including myself) bought W3T because of Rick's kind & unflagging support for everyone here.

Maybe keep current license and do not upgrade to the Infopop license is a good suggestion.

dannylin,

I guess I don't agree... currently, all the w3t hacks are 'at your own risk', with comments to back up your database and files before applying them (correct, eileen? gerrit? six?). Support for those hacks has always been handled by either the person who developed the hack, or, by Rick, even though he didn't design them or put them into the pro version...

The only thing I see changing is that Rick will have more time on his hands to incorporate existing hacks and to monitor the support forums... (meaning he might be able to investigate more thoroughly...). Now, of course, I am not trying to place the burden on him to troubleshoot hacks added to the core software product... that has never been his responsibilty. He, and others, have done it because (IMHO) many of those hacks are great enhancements to the core software and many people use them... meaning that if there is a recurring issue, and it can be fixed, more people of this community may benefit from that time spent.

Maybe Rick or Ted can step up and address this concern more directly, but my personaly opinion is that licensed support will probably be for the 'core' code only. Again, I think that Rick, being Rick, and all the other 'hackers' out in this community, will continue to assist people in getting hacks to work correctly with the system. You said it exactly, [:blue]Rick's kind & unflagging support for everyone here. That will not change just because Infopop is handling Orders/licensing, etc... Rick is still the main developer/support person on the system. []/testimages/icons/cool.gif[/]

Enjoy!

Matt

ps- these are my own personal opinions and observations... feel free to comment on them!

Re: Maybe keep current license and do not upgrade to the Infopop license is a good suggestion.
Sounds like a good one to me, as a precaution anyway, until we can really see where this ride is taking us. I've already downloaded the latest "real" W3T versions for safekeeping so I can eventually maybe do my final(?) upgrade if I find the time to work all my hacks in. While I am in a "wait and see" position and I can understand that Rick might have had to make this move for financial reasons, I am also at a point where I think I'll just stick with the well working forum script and do my own development via hacks. If however the wonderful community here breaks apart, I think it would be a crying shame, and I would hope that a board for "old" W3T hackers and supporters could be created to keep the original W3T going, if things aren't handled well enough by Infopop. I say, let's wait and see.

Re: currently, all the w3t hacks are 'at your own risk', with comments to back up your database and files before applying them (correct, eileen? gerrit? six?).
Agreed! I never even expected Rick to help with hacks... but he did anyway on quite a few occasions, which is one of the reasons that I think helped this product to be outstanding. Of course, the return effect has been that hacks have been worked into the product making it even better.
Still, I can't get over the feeling that quality, which to me has been the main factor for W3T, may suffer when it gets "swallowed" by a corporation. Time will tell if Scream can put enough in to make a difference and keep this special personal touch of W3T that many of us have come to appreciate. I still would rather go with a product by a small company, a product that goes for quality, and not for quantity.

Matt,
You may misunderstood the words I'd like to convey to.
I never expected Rick to help with hacks since most of those hacks were unofficial. And I don't think a customer support should be standing on a in-black-and-white basis.

What I'm expected in which some others here most concerned was the qualityof their new support & service.

Danny,

that is an understandable concern. I guess I did mis-read your statements a bit... []/testimages/icons/blush.gif[/] I hope you didn't take it personally... []/testimages/icons/wink.gif[/] I think that we'll all have to wait til Rick & Ted get everything set up and running in the next couple of weeks to see which direction support & service is headed... however, since Rick already stated that he'll have more time to devote to the code, I do not think that there will be an issue.

Matt

Gerrit hit it right on the money....so to speak.

Quality and reliability of the product are what most of us are concerned about. The thing that was the deciding factor for alot of us who have chosen to build our entire community around this W3T scriptset is the man....Rick Baker....and the community that aligns itself with him and his work.

We all know it's the community working with him that makes it possible, but it's his devotion to the community that has made this product what it is. If he had just set the scripts out on the web and gone about his life without all the hacks and alts he's done....and all the work all of you have contributed....this W3T would be just another wannabe.

I have to agree with Gerrit though.....that we will just have to wait and see if InfoPop can take on the role of a big brother and not a corporate Big Brother. I only hope Rick doesn't find his codebase....and his years of work....swallowed up and taken out of his control. Me and my staff would like to see this project reach it's potential and I think that is what Matty is projecting with his words and thoughts as well.

There's a whole new world opening up to W3T here.....how it is used will determine whether W3T is absorbed into the UBB machine....or kicks it's tail down the list of most popular scriptsets....like you can't see where my money is bet, huh? {:o)

I'm sure Mateo is working on a new list of wishes for the next major upgrade as we read this..... {:o)

BTW - CEO Ted.....I have to agree with some of the comments about the new name " UBBThreads" being objectionable.

I really get a funny feeling seeing the UBB attached to the W3T name. I know brand recognition is critical, but a killer product will cross pollinate without all the obvious brand infiltration, don't you agree? What if every General Motors car had a GM in front of the Chev or Olds or Caddy?

Let W3T stand on it's own name....and UBB on it's own name....it shows you have confidence in the products you sell not to need a crutch to support each other...ya'know?

It's been great fun, guys.....let's hope for the best and do what we can to make it happen....Bobby.

Re: I really get a funny feeling seeing the UBB attached to the W3T name. I know brand recognition is critical, but a killer product will cross pollinate without all the obvious brand infiltration, don't you agree? What if every General Motors car had a GM in front of the Chev or Olds or Caddy?

Let W3T stand on it's own name....and UBB on it's own name....it shows you have confidence in the products you sell not to need a crutch to support each other...ya'know?

Amen!

Matt,

Yap. I do think there will be a new scene in between the merge of W3T & Infopop since commercial warez need a commericial development & service. :-)

Ole Brewskie's gonna chime in here.....

I agree with everybody that the main reason to buy and keep w3t has been Rick. He is simply the best developer I have yet to see. In support, and development you can't find a better person.

I looked at infopops lineup before I started using w3t a long while back. And, to put it bluntly, I thought infopops lisencing truly sucked. And it still sucks. The infopop lisence is so draconian that you can't even remove their stupid logo and copyright notice from your board.....which you have to pay dearly for in the first place. It's obvious to me that infopop is another one of those small companies trying to look big....and charging like the big boys. I would wager it will be only a small matter of time before w3t is priced in the stratusphere...I mean all you have to do is compare the feature list of UBB with w3t and then look at what they charge for UBB. Believe me.....w3t is gonna really cost you some money to use.

There may be a lot of good thoughts for the great work Rick does with w3t but my feelings are greater for my web site, which I have spent countless hours developing. My priorties lie with my site and my regular visitors. And like most sites it is a labor of love and not of money. How many people here are actually making money off their site? A very small percentage are! Like with me.....I don't make a dime off my site.....why would I want to put up with infopop's crap, which is surely to come?

Naw....I'm gonna have to pass on the future of w3t unless infopop changes their act.

Brew

Yeah I totally agree with you. The best predictor of future behavior is from past performance. Infopop really screwed with their loyal customer base 2 years ago with the UBB Enterprise. Then they started raising prices over and over and over again every couple of months. And then finally with 6.0, prices started to reach up there in the stratosphere.

Thanks but no thanks. Rick I respect you, but now that Infopop own wwwthreads, it won't be long till things go down the hill.

I can't really give out all of the details about the sale terms, but I can say that I will be around for quite some time. I know alot of you have concerns about Infopop, and if I would have sold to some other large company the concerns would probably be there as well. I know this because I work a day job at a company that went through this transitition. It's definitely a change when you go from dealing with a single person to a larger company.

For those of you that have been around for awhile and really know me and my commitment, this should be of some reassurance. I will still be treating the community, support issues, development the way I always have. I'm still going to be haning around the forums, making sure your questions are answered. My customers have always been the most important thing in this whole venture. If you weren't happy somewhere along the way then I wasn't doing my job. And that is still going to be my job.

These may seem like empty promises at the moment, but many of you know that I always do my best to live up to my promises.

Brewskie--

One thing that occurred to me in the midst of reading your post was the idea that if, in the months ahead, Infopop does live up to all the fears and become truly draconian, there is enough talent here that somebody here will either create their own better product, or jump ship and bring a lot of us into some other camp where the natives are properly responsive.

In an economy such as ours, and particularly on the Internet, people can always vote with their feet, and walk away.

jmtc