Hope this isn't a bad topic, if so feel free for any other admin/moderator to close it.

I was just wondering out of the people that come to this board everyday, if you were drafted to go into the military and fight for your country, would you? Or would you desert? I'd just like to hear opinions on it.


I would fight for my country, the good ole USA.

If I was young enough to be drafted and I was, I would go.

diddo.

I would probably go, but reluctantly.

Under other circumstances, I'm sorry to say I'd probably be a deserter - had I been around during Vietnam, I would have hopped to Canada in a tick, cuz Vietnam was just stupid. However, this time they kicked us in the balls, and deserve to be kicked back. It really would be our war, not us just going and blowing things up for other people. So I suppose I'd go. (Once I'm over there, am I allowed to go insane? I have a low tolerance for stuff like that...)

I personally don't think a draft will happen. There are like seven different levels of already enlisted servicemen that they have to go through before they run out and need more. And besides that, war itself has changed. It's not so much about who's got the most men, as who's got the most rockets. Our generals sit back, push a shiny red button, and eat popcorn while watching the fireworks. We can make Afghanistan a great big barbecue pit in a few seconds, if we feel like it.

---Skorpion

Exactly... but I would go, in a heartbeat. I am actually going to the recruiter's office this week and see about the air force reserves. I'd go in as an officer and a RN, so I'd prolly not see any combat, but I just can't sit by and do nothing.

If it isn't worth fighting for, it isn't worth having...

well, if I could be drafted, I'd go. Since I'm too old, too married with children to be drafted, I'll just stay at home and watch.

Oh yeah, I have no kids or wife, so it's a little easier for me

I would go if I was the right age and though I could survive. If I was too yung or wasn't confident on fighting in wars I wouldn't go.

I'm a lover, not a fighter...oh wait, wrong topic.

Yeah, I wouldn't have any qualms defending my country, although I happen to like my current life as it stands. My wife would certainly hate for me to have to go. As much as I like Canada, I wouldn't make a run for the border.

What are the current guidelines and restrictions?

-Tacks

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: tackaberry ]

i wouldn't

what will fighting against other people in my situation achieve. a war is inherently normal people killing normal people for the good of their 'leaders' (who, of course, sit back and watch them die). what cause would you be defending? freedom? what about the freedom of the other side? your right to security? what about theirs?

WHAT does war achieve? WHY would you be willing to acrifice your life and become a pointless statistic? WHO would ultimately benefit from your death?

You're all so ready to go out there and kill the enemy, before you even understand who they are or why you are against them. i'm amazed.

I wouldn't go end of story.

I have a lot going for me, and have busted my rump to get to where I am. I am not about to give up everything I have worked for or leave the people I love for any exteneded amount of time unless it is a vaccation.

I am not worried about it either we have enough people in our military where I doubt a draft would be enacted and even if it was.. I wish them luck trying to draft me.

muhahhaha.

It's nice to live in a country where you have that choice... quite a few have mandatory conscription when you turn 18 or so for men and women.

It's also interesting to see the statements here and notice the age of those making them. It's usually the older ones who see the necessity of something like this, when you are young, you think you are the one who got you where you are, not realizing a lotta people died before you to give you this opportunity. As much as you like/love your present state of life, those that are unwilling to fight for it could have it taken away in an instant. If people were unwilling to fight before, we would all be either under a Japanese or German dictatorship. Or a Russian communistic government where millions and millions died just for thinking like you do.

We could all be back in the middle ages living under a radical fundamentalistic Islamic theocratic government where the women aren't allowed to go outside without a male, all of us are wearing robes and sandals and no-one is allowed to cut their hair. There would be no internet, only state-run TV and radio, and all the men have mandatory military service as well... etc etc etc..

... if we all were unwilling to fight for our way of life.

I'm 31 and I don't. I don't see a clear enemy that we can paint into a corner and bomb the crap out of. We're talking islamic fanatics here. They're all over the world, aren't they?

>If people were unwilling to fight before, we would all be either under a Japanese or German dictatorship.

Perhaps, but the situation is not at ALL comparable. Moslem fanatics don't exist under a specific government that we can objectify and fight.

Ok so, we capture/kill Bin Laden and as much of his support as possible, then what? He gets turned into a martyr, and fringe people get moved to become fanatical, and the ones that are already goners get moved to uphold the cause even more strongly.

So it gets followed by a continued escalation on each end, except that our escalation would be something like bombing more of their infrastructure, and theirs would be like nuking LA or dropping anthrax all over Chicago.

I don't know what the solution is but I'm right there with Cal wanting to know what a war would/will achieve. I get the creepiest feeling that sometime in the next year or two we could be asking ourselves, "What could we have done differently?" and we'd be talking about the decisions that are being made right now.

No, I don't have alternate suggestions on what should be done, except maybe for the naïve wish that televised governmental dialogues would be possible between the parties involved.

Right. :rolleyes:

The situation is completely comparable... they will not stop until either:

- they kill all americans/ and those who support them

- we kill them


They have not asked for negotiations, treaties, detente, whatever you want to call it. They have vowed to kill all Americans, and they don't do it with frontal attacks to military targets. They hit when you don't expect it where you don't expect it. They are (quite) willing to die for their cause and their cause is total annihilation of our people and our way of life. Please re-explain fatwah to me if this isn't correct.

In your example, there are specific countries.
What countries do you propose we bomb here?

"Those who harbor them"? We harbored the ones who did this for a year or more. They are everywhere.

<--scoping out chem-bio.com

That's the problem... it's not a "bomb your country into craterhood" situation... more of an intelligence/special operations - type war - just as important here to fight for your country than some grand Normandy beach invasion...

hmmmmmm k. That has a very different flavor than at the beginning of the thread. "Fighting for your country" doesn't normally equate "Yes I'd participate in intelligence/special operations for my country."

So neh. <--favorite argument from way back.

I agree it's important to do something. But none of it is simple, and I don't see how we can avoid a terrifying escalation.

Special Ops is just as bloody as Normandy invasions, but on a smaller scale. Think James Bond/Rambo without the women. I have a nephew in the marines doing reconnaisance work, he would be one of the first over there.

Besides the point...

China is probably the only country who would try some type of frontal assault on the US and currently we are both in peaceful negotiations to keep something like that at bay...

The current situation demands more in terms of intelligence support with much smaller fighting teams, but yes, it could escalate into a much broader situation very easily.

i think rather than fatwah, you mean jihad . they are not doing this without reason. study the US foreign poilcy over the last 30 years and see why many middle eastern countries implicitly hate the US.

but this doesn't get away from the fact that the acts of a government NEVER justify killing the people they serve.

[ 09-19-2001: Message edited by: cal ]

This is more of a self-defense mechanism than anything... they aren't shooting at the soldiers who volunteered for the service, they are killing thousands of un-armed civilians who have never heard of them.

As for the fatwah, Bin Ladin issued it, ask him if he really meant jihad.

Allen, It seems that you've a total misunderstanding of Islam.
I suggest your read: Silent No More which is written by Paul Findley, Member of Congress 20th District, Illinois, 1961-1983.

My comments have nothing to do with Islam, unless you think Bin Ladin and the Taliban are accurate representatives of Islam.

What amazes me is that people can't see that this is unlike any other war.

They want to kill us, period. No questions about it, no surrender, no quarter. They don't want our land, our riches, our information. They want our LIVES!

If we don't kill them, they will keep killing us and keep killing us until we are no more.

While I agree that at the moment there isn't a clear specific target, we can target those that have been proven to support such actions in the past.

Targeting Bin Laden at the moment without concrete proof of the latest attack I would agree is wrong. Targeting him because we are pissed off and we KNOW he has attacked us in the past is just a good excuse to kick his ass. I'm for it.

I don't think anyone that disagrees with this war would still disagree if it was your hometown that lost 6,000+ people. Think about where you live and what area would have to be lost to lose 6,000 people. I can tell you that I have a lot of friends and family within that type of radius.

So to answer the initial question, would I go? Yes. Would I be a worthwhile infantryman? No. Too many problems prevent it, not to mention I am past the desired age. But I would go.

This is our home and it has been invaded, we have to defend it. The attacks will NOT stop and are not over. We have to finish it.

I've been robbed at gunpoint in my own home, shot at, stabbed and whatnot. You tell me that if someone held your family at gunpoint and possibly even harmed them, you wouldn't want their ass for it? Right. And if you sat back and let it happen, then I have many questions about you, that I do NOT want answered.

This is no different.

I agree with you that this is unlike any other war situation and that something should be done. Let's go after Bin Laden, but let's also be aware that it's basically lose-lose. Either we can't find him in the million & one caves he's got as hiding places in Afghanistan, which will make him look strong and us dumb, or we get him and he becomes a martyr. (And boy don't these guys love martyrs?!)



By the way this is probably my favorite article on Afghanistan so far, because you can't help but pause when you read it, even if you're gunho for war. (IMO) It's from the viewpoint of a Russian who fought there. If you got a minute.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-000075191sep19.story

Hm...here's basically the possibilities I see, and what's wrong/right with them:

1. Bomb 'em. Kill civilians. Let their controlled media show us as barbarians.

2. Send in the army ground troops, keep pounding on them. This seems to be the best option.

3. Try To negotiate. Watch them laugh at us, then attack us again.

Had to cut this short - more later.

Dark Templar,
Do you really think that YOUR media is not controlled?

This is not directed at any particular person, or post in general. But serves as a friendly reminder.

The prospect of retalliation and/or war is one of great controversy. There are bound to be strong opinions and emotions. Please remember to respect one another's opinions, even if you do not agree with them.

Flaming and/or personal attacks in threads will simply not be tolerated by anyone. If anyone crosses this line, expect to have your posts edited/closed/deleted. Repeat offenders stand to jeopardize their priviledge of posting on this board.

Keep the conversation clean and intelligent.

Thanks in advance



-Tacks

[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: tackaberry ]

whoa! Am I in the wrong place...

Will do tacks, thanks for the reminder.

I'll take chit-chat party poopers for 500, Alex!

lol Allen and scats