UBB.Developers Forums General Discussion Suggestions and Feedback Post headers on top worth it?

While doing some changes to showflat and showthreaded I realized that the choice to allow post headers on top or the side adds alot to the size of these scripts. So, I did a query to see if any active users use the post headers on top format here and came up with very few.

So, my question to you is if this is a feature worth keeping. This is something that each of you probably need to ask your users about, or check and see if any of them have their U_Post_Format setting set to 'top'. If this option was removed it could really clean up some of the code and reduce the size of these 2 scripts but I don't want to remove the option if people actually use it[]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/].

I wouldn't even ask them; just blow it away and clear the space. []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]

[]http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Eileen-sig.gif[/]

I agree with Eileen.

It's a relatively small feature that probably wouldn't be missed a whole lot.

But then again....

Ya never know []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]

Brew
CustomShowCars.com

I wouldnt have any problem at all if you take this option out.

By the way, sort of related: one thing I would like to see changed in showflat is the left side column, its too big, it takes too much space, maybe it could be sized down a little?

Mateo Byler
CruceDeCaminos.com

Personally I would not mind seeing it go. But with my luck, I'd get flooded with hate mail the minute the option was gone. Hehe... I'll be happy to poll our users however. I am willing to bet that the vast majority would never even notice the option was gone and if it can help improve load time, if even i the slightest sense, I'm all for it. []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]

Jhariden (aka Strategist)
Stratics Forums

I set mine to 10% nowrap and let the message body have the rest.

[]http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Eileen-sig.gif[/]

OKay, I figured rather than waste time doing a poll, we'd just do a query of the database and get the facts, jack. Here are the results:

+---------------+----------+
| U_Post_Format | count(*) |
+---------------+----------+
| side          |    53186 |
| top           |      230 |
+---------------+----------+
2 rows in set (11.48 sec)

That's .04 percent. So I'd say we can safely lose that option and I'd not even get an email on it!! []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]

Jhariden (aka Strategist)
Stratics Forums

In reply to:

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So, I did a query to see if any active users use the post headers on top format here and came up with very few.

---

I regret this kind of argument.
Singlewomen with a baby are few. Homosexual people are few. Torturated people in the world are few. Exploited children are few ...
Imagine political and law decisions, about these situations, were based on the "few" concept!

It's wasn't meant as an argurment and it definitely isn't meant to be taken personally. As the developer I always have to look for ways to make things faster/better. This is something I saw so I posed a question on the forums. I always look for user feedback where the customer is concerned. The devel site is just that, it's development, not the real distribution. So, what you see there doesn't necessarily mean that is the way it's going to be.

If the need for the headers on top option is valid then it can stay. I always need to see if the usefulness of a feature is valid. I have to ask myself this any time someone requests a feature. Sure I can probably code anything that anybody wants but some things just aren't worth it if they make the code into a nightmare or make the program slow.

This was something that I saw that added a large block of redundant code when I was working on adding the new post options so I figured I'd ask what everyone thought.

I'm guessing by your response that you think they should stay[]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/].

i think it can be a feature that can be removed, comparing abortion to w3t is just to much of a stretch. it was a feature that might have been used more in the past when it was introduced. but i think that most users are comfortable with the way that most bbs boards that they visit have the post headers to the side. whatever it takes to speed things up i am all for it.

[:red]--------------
http://extremeforums.org

Happy to know the development version will not be the distribution one as it is (in terms of features).

Scream, as soon as a feature is there, it's hard to drop it. The reasons are multiple:

- Nobody knows how he is using this feature and why is it mandatory for him
- Some hacks could be based on this feature
- On my small intranet network, "Post headers on top" is the default option. So a lot of people are using it, probably because it's just the default one. In another community, it could be the opposite, just because one want to try another option than the default one.
- There is always a lot af small screens with a 640*480 resolution in use! "Post headers on top" is just suitable in this case. There's more space to display a post.

At my point of view, the problem is not to keep or to drop this feature, but how to keep it without getting a bigger script. Maybe the solution is simply to split the needed scripts! []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]

[OFFTOPIC] If I was the w3t project manager I would ask myself why a veteran like Eileen is always using the 5.09 version. She helped almost everybody but she can't upgrade to the new versions!

If the reason could be because she doesn't want to through away all the good hacks she has done, then the good question would be "what Eileen's hacks can be added such that she will upgrade her w3t version to 5.3.x?" A better question than what features to drop []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/] []/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/]

Don't allow yourself to be infuenced by pseudo-moralistic arguments. Nobody is going to 'suffer' in any real way from the lack of a top option.

[]http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Eileen-sig.gif[/]

Hey, don't cite me as a reason for holding back progress - I'm *all* in favor of it.
So it'll take a bit of extra effort on my part to upgrade without losing my hacks but nobody forced me to add them and I *will* upgrade as soon as I can find enough time. I love all these new features and I'm in favor of shedding dead weight to make room for them.

[]http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Eileen-sig.gif[/]

You were cited in an offtopic paragraph, not directly related to the "Post headers on top" topic.

I'm new to this progam (less than 2 months), so I'm still trying to decide which I like best, but if I didn't have a choice, I wouldn't know any different. I've been to other boards where I don't have any choice on the interface and never thought twice about it. The only good argument I've heard for headers on top is the 640x480 screen. I do have a problem with real estate on my laptop, and I'm sure others have the same problem, but that doesn't mean we should have headers on top if it's an anchor to the efficiency and speed of the program. It would be nice to have EVERY feature available, but it's not always possible, and sometimes the minority positions get left behind. This is unfortunate, but pragmatic and realistic.

http://www.yourvacationdreams.com

I was with AOL for 5 years and recently the Product Development Director for a startup in Reston, VA. We had a rule of thumb at AOL when developing any products (if anyone's interested)...
If you can build 10 features for people, never build more than 5 of them per upgrade.

The bottom line is, people adjust to whatever 5 things you give them and everything else is gravy. If you're building the software for developers/techies, it's an arguable and different matter. If you're building the software for the average internet person, choose 5. That's my 2 cents.


Rebecca


Lumdi Lumdi Li

I wouldn't mind seeing that feature go. While there may be reasons for keeping that feature, I couldn't come up with any... Now, relating this change to homosexuals discirmination or torture is something that can not be taken seriously, I guess it's just a bad choice of examples and you may still have a point, but I guess I dont agree.

One thing for everyone to keep in mind for this is on the user end the speed increase that will be gained by removing this bit will not be noticeable. On the server side it will make a slight difference but it's not a showstopper if it is left in. This is just one of those things that made the code somewhat complex so I wanted to see if it was actually used.

It seems that the majority of those who want the feature left in decided to write me personally and read me the riot act for even thinking about it[]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/].

So, with that it seems that people do like it. I'll just clean up the code somewhat to make it more efficient.

Now, for future references. When I pose a question to the group there is a reason for it. I like to get feedback before doing things. So, a question is just that. I'm not saying this is the way it's going to be, I'm saying "look, this is what I'm thinking. What does everyone else think?" and then we go from there. So please don't get too worked up over my asking for input[]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/].

Do you also design your site to fit a 640x480 screen?
I'd love to have a look.

[]http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Eileen-sig.gif[/]

I don't think I like the idea that a noisy minority sneaking in the back door carries more weight than the Majority verdict voiced on the open board.

[]http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Eileen-sig.gif[/]

Exactly the point I was trying to make Eileen. []/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/]

http://www.yourvacationdreams.com

I've got quite a few people that just don't post on the boards. Their opinions don't carry more weight, but it did answer the question of if anyone actually uses the feature[]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/].

Fair enough. Especially since the savings would be minimal.

[]http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/Eileen-sig.gif[/]

Hehehe... frankly, if a feature is not used and it adds to load times I have NO PROBLEM losing it. Just because a feature has been added does not mean it cannot be removed. Not every feature is always beneficial.

I am all for cleaning up the code and fine tuning it. Even at the loss of rarely used features. More than half the people I asked, even those whom are moderators for our boards, did not even know what that option was and those who did hated it. So I'd have voted to go ahead and lose it. IIt'd never even be missed.

Jhariden (aka Strategist)
Stratics Forums

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