We've begun working on a new message board product that will attempt to combine the strengths of both of our current downloadable message board products (UBB.classic and UBB.threads).

This new product, yet to be named, is being written in PHP and will run on a MySQL 4 database. It will replace both UBB.classic and UBB.threads and be Infopop's sole downloadable message board. UBB.classic and UBB.threads license-holders will be able to download the next generation product when it becomes available, so long as they have a current member area subscription for their product. We will also be ensuring that versions of UBB.classic and UBB.threads remain available in the member area well beyond the release date of the new product.

Finally, the new product is not simply an upgrade from UBB.classic and UBB.threads. This is an entirely new product and, as such, moving to it will require a data import from your existing message board. If you have a valid UBB.classic or UBB.threads license, however, you will not have to purchase a new license to use the new product!

Consolidating our development efforts on one downloadable message board should result in a better overall product, improved support, and faster development cycles. We'll release more details about the new product over the coming months, but the current projection is for a Spring 2005 release date.

To summarize:

-- The new product is being written in PHP, running on MySQL 4.

-- Your existing UBB.threads or UBB.classic license will apply to the new product.

-- New development on UBB.classic and UBB.threads will cease, with the exception of bug fixes.

-- Old versions of UBB.threads and UBB.classic will remain in the member area, even after the new product is released.

-- If you move from UBB.classic or UBB.threads to the new product, you will actually have to import your data to the new message board (it is not simply an upgrade). This means some settings/information from your current board may be lost (because not all of features/settings will be the same).

-- Release of the new product is not expected until Spring 2005.

My question is.....

[]New development on UBB.classic and UBB.threads will cease, with the exception of bug fixes.[/]

At what point will development cease - is this after the release of 6.5? So there will not be a 6.6 etc.?

It would be nice to know how long a gap there will be between development of threads and ubb and the new product?

Apart from my question above - I personally think this should be great for the product - I know it will not be popular with everyone - especially if current development stops and a stable new release is after spring 05, with a long gap.

As long as we can have lots of groups, I will be happy

Aye will they finish 6.5 or are the shelving 6.5 at beta 4.... alot of questions remain...

I'm just wondering about the new UBB.

• Will this new UBB blend in elements of eve? I would like it to use interactive elements of eve, becaus vB3 uses something similar.
  
  
• Is this the end for threaded view? What has made UBB.threads appealing to some is the threaded display option. For those who dislike threaded display, it should have an admin option to be disabled.
  
  
• Will any other features be lost?
  
  
• Will both Rick and Charles work on this new UBB?

BTW, I will delete the photos for UBB.threads 7.0 and come up with ideas for the new UBB.

BTW, I think the new UBB should be called UBB.1337! I will share my ideas at UBBDev.

We'll be adapting this site and possibly merging with UBBDev so that there will still be an active development community for both Threads and the new product.

6.5 will be finished, and any maintenance releases will be made as bugs are found. There just won't be any new features added to either .classic or .threads.

Threaded view will remain intact. Basically we're going to take the best of both .classic and .threads into the new product.

I know this is going to be a rough sell to some people. The front end of .threads was due for a major overhaul, not only in look but the code needed to be improved majorly, so a major rewrite for the frontend was on the slate anyways. Both Charles and I will be working on the new product which should help in getting releases out in a timely manner and to keep up with the Joneses.

Well I hate to ask this over here, as it is not 100% the place, but Josh knows everything (grins), and Scream and many others are here all the time as well. Two questions or thoughts.

I have ubb.threads so integrated into my site (as many others), that this could be extremely painful when it comes time to swap over. So obviously one of my choices is to continue running 6.4x or 6.5x indefinitely.

1. So can I keep upgrading my yearly membership in the event that I want to eventually use the new system?

Second question - I like many people are a legacy member from the WWWThreads days, and due to that my yearly membership area fees are on a different structure, and have been since we moved from WWWThreads to Infopop.

2. Will that yearly fee remain the same, or is it going away?

Thanks guys as always, I have truly enjoyed this product since day 1, and started learning php by delving into the code of threads!

All sounds good - this can only be good news in the long run.

I know you hate to speculate on features but will any of the new product introduce any features of what is in eve?

1. So can I keep upgrading my yearly membership in the event that I want to eventually use the new system?

Yes.

Second question - I like many people are a legacy member from the WWWThreads days, and due to that my yearly membership area fees are on a different structure, and have been since we moved from WWWThreads to Infopop.

2. Will that yearly fee remain the same, or is it going away?

Same.

[]oceanwest said:
I know you hate to speculate on features but will any of the new product introduce any features of what is in eve? [/]

I'm sure it will. We have eve to draw upon, as well as .classic and .threads. Why not use what is best of all of them?

No idea what Eve "is" or "does" - but I am always interested to see what you guys come up with

Thanks [:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/].

Just found this kind of email in my mailbox that I never wanted to receive... You guys keeping me busy with every of the recent versions and now a complete new product

I have done thousands changes to the templates of ubb.t and implemented lots of hacks and hundreds of changes. Also I have to maintain two more languages with every new release. Will all that work be lost? Do I have to start from scratch?

Will it be worth migrating to 6.5 if there is a complete new product anyway?

Will there be a comparison of what feature will be new or lost?

[]Will all that work be lost? Do I have to start from scratch?[/]Unfortunately, yes, you'll probably need to start from scratch. The new product works differently from both Classic and Threads from a Wordlet/Template point of view. However, with any luck, you'll find the work easier.

[]Will it be worth migrating to 6.5 if there is a complete new product anyway?[/]Absolutely!

[]Will there be a comparison of what feature will be new or lost? [/]When we have the final tally, yes, we'll post a list. We're trying to not remove features, so when one does get removed, it has to be a VERY good reason.

I have done thousands changes to the templates of ubb.t and implemented lots of hacks and hundreds of changes. Also I have to maintain two more languages with every new release. Will all that work be lost? Do I have to start from scratch?

It is a totally new product. Should you move to it then yes, you'll have to start over with hacks and mods.

Will it be worth migrating to 6.5 if there is a complete new product anyway?

6.5 will be here within a week or two. The new product won't be till spring 2005. Obviously it's your choice, but my choice would be to go to 6.5, get the new control panel and all the rest of the new features and bug fixes. It's lots nicer than anything before it.

Will there be a comparison of what feature will be new or lost?

When the time is appropriate, yes.

I have done thousands changes to the templates of ubb.t and implemented lots of hacks and hundreds of changes. Also I have to maintain two more languages with every new release. Will all that work be lost? Do I have to start from scratch?

*lol* - i've been running bbs/forums for more than half a decade now, earlier i had some dialin-bbs, even multi-node bbs running with quickbb, remoteaccess and majorbbs. being one of the first-time-customers of an ultimatebb i'm used to start in a period of about 18 months from scratch, rebuilding the look&feel and usability by tweaking, hacking, patching and modifying by coding uncountable lines, removing and adding and de-bugging. so, this is MY JOB to keep the site up and running using future technologies, this is why my 13.000 users love me because i do take care about new features, a more stable and powerful and fast engine... it takes loads of times, sometimes i got rid of hacking things again, but on the other hand it's fun seing more and more useful features using a brighter technology...

so, i guess the new product will be some sort of downloadable eve including a hopefully modular structure to allow users to drag&drop new infopop-products&/features like an link-engine, an build-in myspace-file-explorer, a gallery, a build in chat-module and some cms-features to give that upcoming product (ubb.new7.x? adam *G* ?) an additional portal-feature to competite with pjp/postnuke... just some ideas but i guess this might be the way infopop is gonna do... :-)

^^ Well, you surely have the "downloadable" bit right.

Let me be clear, this is *not* going to be a downloadable eve.

Can Pink Jazz please post the screenshot of the new product

well, i used the term 'eve' just to make clear that i GUESS that this new product could include some 'basic features' engines like xoops, php- and postnuke do offer by giving us the ability to include typical portal-features - less or more *G* - on the fly... like the already mentioned features like a gallery, a link-engine, some chat-module, a file-'community' for sharing ware..err.. stuff or things like that. i i'd look closer at eve it seems that this is a try of starting a tiny portal, not just a bbs anymore like we're used to. so, i guess the new product will be MORE than just a forum. it's just an idea. or in other words, i HOPE that i will be able in late spring/summer2005 to offer my users a bunch of features they're requesting for years and some of these requests i had to feed using 3rd-party stuff which really does NOT satisfy me :-)

The new UBB is "just" a message board. If we choose to develop things like a photo gallery package, etc, in the future, they would likely be marketed as independant products.

they would likely be marketed as independant products.

that's for sure, always making some extra cent *biggrin*

but well, today message boards ARE more than just 'message boards' compared to the earlier times when i've been working with uucp, fido and - as mentioned - software like quickbbs, remote access or even majorbbs. so, well, let's wait and see...

Will / does it have subforums or subforum options?

/*Ouch, who hit me...?*/

Subforums They'll probably decide to take those out.

At this point I truly doubt the will get put in, but I'm not going to be commenting too much on features from here on out. At least until it is time. We're pretty far from that yet.

And please, make any and all feature request on the UBBCentral boards.

Why does it seem that infopop is afraid of subforums/subcats?

I'm just curious about the members currently with gold licenses...will we have to pay for a new license with this new product?

[]UBB.classic and UBB.threads license-holders will be able to download the next generation product when it becomes available, so long as they have a current member area subscription for their product.[/]

So that'd be a "no."

Wooohooo!!!!

I don't have official screenshots, but I am currently working on some ideas for Infopop to consider.

I read about this new product months ago on the Power Rangers board.

LOL

sigh......I think this will be good, but change, change, change...I hate change, until change isn't change anymore.

I have some pretty extensive integration-I think-with my jobs software, etc. I'm wondering how that will turn out.

On a side note, I'm not a big fan of Eve.

Question: How will this affect integration with stuff like photopost, reviewpost, etc? Am I back at square one?

Welcome to square one.

But it's all PHP MySQL - us gurus will put on our pointed caps and get to work.

more money for JoshPet....less money for Shortbus...
.
.
.
I smell a conspiracy!!!!!!!

LOL

Go infopop.

>Why does it seem that infopop is afraid of subforums/subcats?

Yes, why is it?

vbulletin can do it.
invision can do it.

infopop can't? Look at their code people, it's not THAT hard

I have an old UBB licence - looks like I might now renew that to benefit from the the new product. Might just grab the $75 offer before it finishes at the end of the month. (not sure how much it is normally - anyone?)

So since we are on the topic of licenses, what are the names?

Someone tossed out a "gold" license - no idea what that is.

I have a legacy WWWThreads license - does that have a spiffier name?

Just curious now.

Sub-forums would be awful cool...but I actually care more about keeping most of what we DO have intact - ie the calendar and its functionality (which could be expanded), the thread tracking, statistics expansion, etc.

http://www.ubbcentral.com/order.php?product=UBB.threads

Ooooooh. Gee, never have been to that page since I sorta had a license (go figure it was easy for me to find if I looked).

Note that none of these images are official, and are only my ideas of what Infopop should consider.

These image ideas are based on my former ideas for UBB.threads 7.0, but modified to keep UBB.classic users happy. Note that I also removed the subforums from my forum index idea.

• 
  
• Next Generation UBB Main Index
  
• Next Generation UBB Forum Display
  
• Next Generation UBB Thread Display (flat view)
  
• Next Generation UBB Thread Display (threaded view)
  
• Next Generation UBB posting form
  
• Next Generation UBB search page
  
• Next Generation UBB User List main page
  
• Next Generation UBB User List
  
• Next Generation UBB My Home (profile area)
  
• Next Generation UBB My Home (private messages)

Will there be a built in way of managing attachments? I ask because I have spent a lot of time and money integrating mods into my current 6.4.x version. At this point the thought of upgrading is simply out of the question without a major overhaul in reinstalling all these custom mods. This would be great to see integrated into the new software.

Here is some architecture-level suggestion for your new system :

You should build a scalable architecture , that is able to connect with other system.
Take me for example , I firstly used your WWWT -> UBBT , and when my community grew up , I want to induct other 3rd-party or custom web-applications (I am a java programmer) . But I want the same user-base , so , I have to dig into your database structure and session/cookie authentication mechanism. This is time-consuming.

If your new system includes [:"red"]"WebServices authentication and authorization interface"[/] or use of LDAP authentication , that admins can easily integrate your new forum with other systems , I think that will be a big appeal for the other world (Java/ASP.NET developers ...etc)

Just my 2 cents.

[]Will there be a built in way of managing attachments?[/]Can you define "managing attachments," please? What exact tools are you looking for?

Note that the overall feature set for the initial release is frozen, so any suggestions would likely wait until later releases, unless we were planning to do them already.

Re: membership integration... hopefully everyone will find the new database layout to be much easier to splice into existing systems / splice existing systems into. Dunno about API calls or web services... web services would almost surely require XML built in to PHP (at least for SOAP an XML-RPC), which unfortunately still isn't always the case.

We are aware that membership integration is an important thing, though.

[]Charles Capps said:
[]Will there be a built in way of managing attachments?[/]Can you define "managing attachments," please? What exact tools are you looking for?

Note that the overall feature set for the initial release is frozen, so any suggestions would likely wait until later releases, unless we were planning to do them already.
[/]

Sure, the ability to manage users attachments from an admin panel; Allow attachments in specific forums only, set limits on a per group basis, view a users attachment totals and be able to remove certain attachments if you choose from the admin panel. These are just a few things off the top of my head.

[]Anno said:
>Why does it seem that infopop is afraid of subforums/subcats?

Yes, why is it?

vbulletin can do it.
invision can do it.

infopop can't? Look at their code people, it's not THAT hard [/]

Maybe becuase we just don't like the idea? Just because something can be added to the code doesn't mean we're going to. We're not going to throw every feature ever requested into the bucket and make our product some sort of overdazzling confusion.

Some things are better left out. Subforums are one of them.

[]Maybe becuase we just don't like the idea? Just because something can be added to the code doesn't mean we're going to. We're not going to throw every feature ever requested into the bucket and make our product some sort of overdazzling confusion.

Some things are better left out. Subforums are one of them. [/]

Oh Finally thats a clear answer, thanks.

That should be [:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/]'s new sig. LOL :lol:

Nah. I think that came across sounding more stern than I intended, but at least I'm consistent.

On second thought vvvvvv

[] Maybe becuase we just don't like the idea? Just because something can be added to the code doesn't mean we're going to. We're not going to throw every feature ever requested into the bucket and make our product some sort of overdazzling confusion.

Some things are better left out. Subforums are one of them.
[/]

It's your product, and its a great product without it. I've bought quite a few licenses and would not have if I didn't like it, BUT....I have to disagree here.

It's not like subforums are an addition requested by just a few people. A LOT of people would like to see it, and I think it would be a very useful addition.

That is my opinion.

With that said, I'm glad you don't come over to my business and start telling me how to run it! Of course, then again, these "hackers" making mods help you guys "infopop" to further develop and improve your product so I'm guessing you take not offense to these opinions but look at them rather as constructive criticism...

Anyway, as long as someone can hack it in there then I'm happy...

Why be, or look like, everyone else? Such conformity is boring...

Anyone else think [:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/] is funny when he's angry?

"so I'm guessing you take not offense to these opinions"

Heck no. Welcome them! I'd rather disagree with you then never hear from you. And more often than not I agree with you. All of you.

Something to remember here, ..... this site, while representative of a large number of active .threads users, and code hackers, is not always representative of the majority of .threads users. We have to make decisions that cover all, or the largest number of, .threads and .classic users. Doesn't mean we don't listen, just means sometimes what we hear from place to place gets weighted against what we hear in other places.

But you know that anyway.

And as for hacking in things. I would never want that to go away. It is what makes each board feel more special and personal. I know I felt that way about my boards when I was running heavily modified .classic boards way back in the day. I sold off my last website a while ago and have no personal site to mess with anymore, but I sure haven't forgotten where I came from.


And subforums last... I'm pretty sure there is/was a lot of coding in there to help you. (almost all of it, last time I looked)

Edited - because I really CAN spell weighted, yes I can

[]Ian Spence said:
Anyone else think [:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/] is funny when he's angry? [/]

Who's angry?

That's horribly broken.

I can fix that [:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/].

[]JoshPet said:
I can fix that navaho. [/]
hmm. fixed test, 123

nope, not fixed.

your regex is also converting n avaho.gif instead of just n avaho

[]Ian Spence said:
Anyone else think [:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/] is funny when he's angry? [/]

[]JoshPet said:
[]Ian Spence said:
Anyone else think [:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/] is funny when he's angry? [/]

[/]

Much better. Here's a cookie.

Here are more cookies.

[]navaho said:
Much better. Here's a cookie. [/]

LOL

I prefer chips ahoys - but I'm on a low carb thing, so I don't eat them that often.

Boy - we've derailed this thread haven't we.

We should get back on track. If anyone can comment on my image ideas. Note that I also shared these image ideas at UBBDev.

Ha ha -[:"pink"]navaho[/][]https://www.ubbdev.com/forum/images/graemlins/navaho.gif[/] got in trouble.

Another good place to discuss this next generation product would be at this thread at UBBDev.

Josh, we used to be the world's champion thread stealing team till PinkJazz showed up.

Hrm.. then his title should fit him.

Actually I heard that Rick actually programmed subforums - but he wrote the code down on a piece of paper - then he ate it. Poof. No subforums.

Depends on whether it was the same piece of paper that PinkJazz took with him on vacation.

Nav, will the "New Program" resemble Eve/UBB.x in appearance? (I understand it is not a clone or redo of eve/ubb.x. Just wondering if it will be made to be more uniform.)

Ian Spence at UBBDev said it will replicate Classic's look, but I think that is only pure speculation. I think it should include elements of Classic, Threads, and eve to be fair to everyone.


J.C., have you seen my image ideas?

Some, hence my question

And no offense, but I hope they do NOT use the dhtml menus as such. Having them in the menu bar would be a lot easier for those wishing to be more creative with the templates.

Also, will the new board have the ubb. prefix?

I know the name of it.

The new Infopop product will be called.....


..


..



..



..



..


Drumroll please


..


..



..


..


UBB.PinkJazz

Someone right a randomizer script, and feed in ubb.classic, ubb.threads and post the more coherent results.

[]J.C. said:
I hope they do NOT use the dhtml menus as such.[/]

Do you mean the dhtml menus that were introduced some time ago in Open Topic? I actually liked those a lot.

Good decision by Infopop to combine Classic and Threads into a single product, especially since the software "engine" and the threaded feature are the two main differences between the products.

>Maybe becuase we just don't like the idea? Just because something can be added
>to the code doesn't mean we're going to. We're not going to throw every
>feature ever requested into the bucket and make our product some sort of
>overdazzling confusion.
>Some things are better left out. Subforums are one of them.

It's not like you are required to use subforums if they are available. It's a choice, you can use them, you don't have to use them. I don's see what is so confusing about this.

The way I see this, particularly since you are going to abandon ubbthreads, many people will switch to products where they have the choice.

"The way I see this, particularly since you are going to abandon ubbthreads, many people will switch to products where they have the choice."

That can be said about any feature that someone asked about but was not added, no?

Hardly, since subforums is a major and important feature.

[]Anno said:
Hardly, since subforums is a major and important feature. [/]

Why?

[]Anno said:
Hardly, since subforums is a major and important feature. [/]

That's clearly your opinion, and while some people do agree with you, as I explained above, it is not necessarily the opinion of the majority of our customers.

To categorize and archive posts for instance.

For people who don't like the DHTML menus, maybe there should be an option to revert to the current UBB.classic/UBB.threads UI if the admin chooses. I really like the idea of DHTML menus. UBB.x pioneered the idea, and now vBulletin 3 uses something based on the same idea. The new UBB should be the world's third messageboard system to do so.

The goal of the UI is currently to replicate Classic with the appropriate hints from Threads.

This, therefore, would not include extensive DHTML menus. That isn't to say that we aren't considering some DHTML goodness (such as hiding admin bits and icons you can't use), nor that we might change our minds before beta and decide to go with a more Eve-like UI. But for right now, you can count on the relative simplicity of the current layouts. It should feel comfortable and familiar to all current customers.

[]Charles Capps said:
The goal of the UI is currently to replicate Classic with the appropriate hints from Threads.

This, therefore, would not include extensive DHTML menus. That isn't to say that we aren't considering some DHTML goodness (such as hiding admin bits and icons you can't use), nor that we might change our minds before beta and decide to go with a more Eve-like UI. But for right now, you can count on the relative simplicity of the current layouts. It should feel comfortable and familiar to all current customers. [/]

Maybe DHTML menus could be added in a future version 2.0. I remember when UBB.x had a UBB.classic-like look.

One hint from threads that should be added is the proper implementation of threaded view. To be fair, there should be a general reply button as well as individual reply buttons. Without the individual reply buttons, threaded view would be very ineffective. Another option should be where users can click a checkbox for if they want to display [Re: Username] or not.

[]Charles Capps said:
The goal of the UI is currently to replicate Classic with the appropriate hints from Threads.
<snip>...</snip>

But for right now, you can count on the relative simplicity of the current layouts. It should feel comfortable and familiar to all current customers. [/]

Excellent!

[]Pink Jazz said:
Ian Spence at UBBDev said it will replicate Classic's look, but I think that is only pure speculation.[/]

[]Charles Capps said:
The goal of the UI is currently to replicate Classic with the appropriate hints from Threads. [/]

Ahhh, looks like someone does know something

[]Charles Capps said:
The goal of the UI is currently to replicate Classic with the appropriate hints from Threads.
[/]
Ack, that'll play well with Threads users.

Navaho, thanks for the response. I totally understand the need to appease the majority of infopop clients.

I just wanted to share my thoughts. I'll just have josh or someone hack it in.

For me, subforums are needed because of the diverse amount of subject matter that my forums cover...it's not a necessity, but it would be helpful...

I am keeping out of the sub-forums debate - I do not want to get lashed by Navahho again

A good admin-menu is important.
I've been playing with Vbulletin 3, and the admin menu, well, it's not exactly the quickest and easiest of things to use! Way too many options and submenus
Threads is a whole better admin wise. Lets hope the new version is also just as easy to use.

>That's clearly your opinion, and while some people do agree with you, as I
>explained above, it is not necessarily the opinion of the majority of our
>customers.

Yes, it is my opinion and that of many other customers of yours.

So you are only considering changing or adding a feature if the majority of your customers would like to see it?

I can imagine that the majority of your customers don't want to see that you abandon UBBthreads. Does this mean you won't start this new unified product and halt the development of UBBthreads?

Given you run Invision and not a ubb, what does it matter?

JC, look at the second link, where she/he runs ubbthreads

Ahh, never the less, I fail to see the point in further discussion.

It was to be added, it was pulled, it has been removed from consideration afaik.

*goes off to play LOTR ROTK*

I aggree with Anno on this, Although I do not have any idea what the rest of the threads base of license owners think on this I am not very happy with this decision of theres to abandon threads. I have been with threads for a very long time and feel somewhat let down by this decicision of infopops. Just because people may want features that other boards have does not mean that they want to use another board per se but if you force a decision on them to move to another board they may in fact move to another board with another company.

Pappy - I am not sure that they are abandoning threads - look upon this another way - maybe they are scrapping ubb.classic and renaming ubb.threads to make it appear that the two products are merging. Could be wrong, but I personally think this is closer to the truth.

Mind you it was only a month or two ago, that Infopop said 'ubb.threads and ubb.classic are going nowhere' - maybe they felt threatened by a brand new bb software company that has just announced their product, which does include groups, sub-forums etc., and looks like a cross between threads & vb. (the alpha screen shots look very good - maybe Pink Jazz did them )

I think that the ubb.ng will be very good for all threads owners - and having the competition of another forum software, will keep them on their toes, so that their market share is not lost.

It is sad that they will not reconsider sub-forums - but as I have invested two licences, and still have a couple of years to run for updates on one of them, I will stick with the new product, and hopefully hack into it sub-forums.

I think infopop need to do this to stay ahead.
It's a good idea and am looking forward to it!

It's a smart business move in my opinion. Looking forward to the new software.

Me too

They can't put all feature requests in... what'd be the need for a site like threadsdev then?

This is good business as long as the new product contains features the customer wants like subscriptions subforums etc.

Infopop for a long time has carried so many products to appeal to the masses yet consolidating resources will now give them the ability to compete effectively against Jelsoft's VBulletin which is the number one board out there I think now in sheer numbers and this also will allow them to add the features you all want.

ahh but there is another aspect.. to the debate.. Many of us run our own board. It is a hobby, perhaps or a business venture. But what then when you take on a new gig. You are providing support and have convinced a paying customer to go in the best direction you had to offer at that time. Now you are faced with more options. You then will have to decide if you wish to support multiple forums. yours, and theirs. If you decide to upgrade stay or go elsewhere. Going back to your client ask for more money is not always an easy task but if there is compelling reasons such as - by the way the software we just got licensed for is End of lIfe and will slowly be come unsupported - meaning interest in the community will be devoted to either the new program or the competing product. And then at that point weigh the options accordingly. Find out what is important to you. Loyalty, Features, Support, Service, Experience, Cost, Time, Energies, Emotions, Skill, etc. only when you organize these things in priority and compare will you only begin to make an informed decision. Everything else is conjecture & speculation.

There will always be growing pains as a company evolves, and such as the combination of classic and threads, this is no different. How thin should a company spread themselves? A hosted product, a hosting service for downloadable products, a php/mysql product, a legacy product...

All of that equates into a lot of money spent sparingly on a lot of different areas, let alone the vast array of support knowledge required to support all areas. You will always have your customers who are threads fans, you will have your classic fans, and there is no denying that. But at what cost will this continue to thrive? All of the additional administrative and logistical issues caused by multiple platforms in essence cause the price of each product to be higher than competitors. This higher cost may yield a small number of satisfied clients, but in the end, costs the company a great deal of money because someone can go down the block and get another forum that does essentially the same stuff but for a much more affordable price. This in turn makes it even more difficult for this company to compete, so prices cannot improve due to the volume of sales.

That is why this merger is so great. Prior to this, you had teams devoted to each platform individually, on two very different technologies and philosophies, each trying to please two niche groups of people. In essence, everyone wants the same thing, a great message board with great features, great speed, great support, and a thriving mod community. By separating each group, you have segmented a community that are longing for the same things, costing not only development time, but revenue because of the very different products.

Once one product is finalized, with the benefits of both classic and threads, you will have more people focused on ONE product, and you will have a development community that will more than double in size, and overall, simply a better product that can compete more readily in the online community market.

Sure, I'm the first one to say there are some things in threads I don't like compared to classic, just as there are some classic things I don't like which threads does. Some of my users have trouble with threads compared to classic or your vb/phpbb sites, but others really like threads compared to those. You will never please everyone 100% of the time, but by combining the best of both and focusing the strengths on one product, this really is a win-win for everyone involved.

If the client wants to upgrade to the new software it doesn't cost anymore as long as their current member area subscription is still current.

[]AllenAyres said:
If the client wants to upgrade to the new software it doesn't cost anymore as long as their current member area subscription is still current. [/]

Only in respects only the forum, license, but there is the other costs, time, effort, the learning curve. If all the features that we have to by mods are not available day one. We have the other cost of emotional counselor to thousands of dissatisfied members of our sites, in any event a re-education for all involved will be required. There is a cost, nothing is free. But knowing and budgeting this can ease future transitions and better prepare the inevitable.

[]Jeremy said:
... You will never please everyone 100% of the time, but by combining the best of both and focusing the strengths on one product, this really is a win-win for everyone involved.[/]

I just wanted to single out this bit...

We understand completely that we're not going to satisfy everyone. I'm personally quite surprised (and pleased!) that there hasn't been more of a negative reaction.

The real power of the actions we're taking hit me about two weeks into development. It went something like "OMG, we're actually killing Classic and Threads! What are we thinking!?"

It's a very hard thing for me to think about. I've spent the past three and a half years of my life working on UBB.classic full time. Rick's spent even longer working on UBB.threads. For all intents and purposes, we are our products. And here we are, stopping development... halting work on things that are very important in our lives. It's really quite a shocking thing.

But the new product is going to make up for that loss. In fact, the very nature of what we're doing has me hyped up enough to not really worry much any more about the death of Threads or Classic.

I think that the end users will be basically satisfied with the new look that the product will bring. That's honestly probably the only thing they'll probably notice at first (other than different URLs and the handful of new features).

I think that board owners will be basically satisfied with the features we'll be adding, not to mention the potential awesome performance thanks to the cache.

I think that the code hackers (that's you folks) will have a field day playing around with all the cool things that Rick and I will be building in. This is my true passion - making cool things for others to tinker with.

In the end, this will be a positive change.

Of course, some people will be dissatisfied. We can't stop that. Oldschool WWWThreads customers probably won't appreciate the looks or the handful of sacrifices we've made to get caching working. Oldschool UBB.classic customers probably won't appreciate the PHPness. There will be some people that, for some irrational reason, won't even give the new product a chance. It will be insulted and torn apart just for existing while the other two downloadables are retired.

But we're ready for this. We're expecting this. We hope that the naysayers will realize that the future is much brighter now.

[]
probably notice at first (other than different URLs and the handful of new features).
[/]
Please tell me the new product will be seamless, or at least offer the user a redirection to the same topic. When I went from clasic to threads many users were upset as the book marked pages no longer worked.

[]Ian_W said:
I am keeping out of the sub-forums debate - I do not want to get lashed by Navahho again
[/]

[]Please tell me the new product will be seamless, or at least offer the user a redirection to the same topic.[/]

There will be a move kit that will silently redirect users. It'll even send the proper HTTP code (301 instead of 302), which should allow supporting browsers to silently change the bookmark to the new page location.

[]Oldschool WWWThreads customers probably won't appreciate the looks or the handful of sacrifices we've made to get caching working.[/]

Are you willing to divulge information on said sacrifices?

User-side options that change the data used to generate a page would break the page if it was cached. In general, these type of features either need to go away entirely, or they need to be made admin options instead of user options.

As an example - at the current time, we've cut the ability to sort topics within a forum on the user-side. This is now an admin option.

The sorting operation is expensive, and a new instance of the cached postlist page would have to be generated for each of the two possible ways each of the available columns could be sorted. That would basically negate the benefits of the cache.

There are some user options, such as favorite forums and the ignore list, that we can make work without breaking the cache. The postlist, by far, will be most impacted by the handful of things that are being removed. (How often do you really sort a forum by anything other than topic start time or topic last reply time?)

"You will be assimilated, resitance is futile!"

[]It's a very hard thing for me to think about. I've spent the past three and a half years of my life working on UBB.classic full time. Rick's spent even longer working on UBB.threads. For all intents and purposes, we are our products. And here we are, stopping development... halting work on things that are very important in our lives. It's really quite a shocking thing.[/]

I hear ya. Scrapping something you've worked with for years takes some guts.

I'm not sure if I'll like the new product, and as I'm not a big fan of how classic works and looks (not strange, as I'm an oooold wwwthreads user) I really hope the merge won't leave the threds 'feel' completely out. But I'm not going to judge it before I see it, and I do understand the need for consolidating work efforts and starting from scratch.

I do trust you and Rick to create an awesome product though, so I'm not worried.

Really the only thing that worries me is that I won't have full knowledge of how it works, having worked with the code in threads for years, in both Perl and PHP, I feel I know it inside and out. But I would have to start from scratch as everybody else with the new product and that would mean I'll probably never know the new system as well as threads. I'll be a complete newbie! =] Scary thought. =P

[]Gardener said:
Really the only thing that worries me is that I won't have full knowledge of how it works, having worked with the code in threads for years, in both Perl and PHP, I feel I know it inside and out. But I would have to start from scratch as everybody else with the new product and that would mean I'll probably never know the new system as well as threads. I'll be a complete newbie! =] Scary thought. =P [/]

I have those same concerns and I'm trying to not let it scare me.
At least we'll all be complete newbies, so with some PHP/MySQL knowledge we'll have an advantage. And ya never know... since threads is so old, and so much stuff has been heaped in and out and reworked over time, a total rewrite of everything may prove an easier system to hack.

I too am not usually receptive to change. I LOVE UBB.Threads - but we'll wait and see. I do know that us ThreadsDever's will have a definate advantage over the UBBDev people, with the PHP/MySQL stuff. So the change will probably be tougher for them to swallow.

Let me point out the advantages of each product.

Advantages of UBB.classic:

• UBB.classic displays the names of users online on the main index and forum display.
  
• UBB.classic has more spider-friendly pages.
  
• UBB.classic does better with the post flagging icons.
  
• UBB.classic's user list is searchable.
  
• UBB.classic uses numbered page search results.
  
• UBB.classic has better user-defined time settings.
  
• UBB.classic has a better private messaging system.
  
• UBB.classic has a disable Graemlins option.
  
• UBB.classic has an option to hide Quick Reply.
  
• UBB.classic displays a review of the entire thread while replying.
  
• UBB.classic has better forum navigation. UBB.threads only goes down to forum level, UBB.classic goes down to thread level.
  
• UBB.classic includes better icons.
  

Advantages of UBB.threads:

• 
  
• UBB.threads has both flat and threaded display options
  
• UBB.threads has [:"red"]color[/] and underline UBBCodes.
  
• UBB.threads has an alphabetic/numeric sort in the user list (The toolbar with the letters and numbers. Clicking on the letter a will only show usernames that start with a, clicking on the letter b will only show usernames that start with b, and so on.).
  
• UBB.threads has a built in calendar feature.
  
• UBB.threads has a better polling feature. The poll does not display in a pop-up window, and users are not required to vote in all of the questions.
  
• UBB.threads can upload attachments
  
• UBB.threads can upload avatars
  
• UBB.threads allows users to select their desired language file.
  
• UBB.threads can search using a date range.
  
• UBB.threads can display a preview of the post body while searching.
  
• UBB.threads bolds and italicizes search terms in posts.
  
• UBB.threads allows users to choose CSS color templates (such as Frosted and Greenday).
  
• UBB.threads allows titles for thread replies.
  
• UBB.threads hides the edit button on posts that you cannot edit.
  
• UBB.threads has a "mark as edited" feature for editing posts.
  
• UBB.threads allows users to either return to the forum OR view thier post while posting or editing.
  
• UBB.threads allows users to collapse/expand categories.
  
• UBB.threads displays the number of users viewing a forum on the main index.
  
• UBB.threads "who's online" feature displays who is actually browsing the forums, rather than who was browsing the forums in a certain time frame.
  

Can we have a British language file - you can even leave out sub-forums if we can have a British language file

Threads has one now. It's /languages/english

Differences

Eng: Brit:
Color Colour
Josh <mod edited>
J.C. Mindless Twit
Nav Geezer
Rick Rick

LOL

One correction....

Josh -> Genius

[]Charles Capps said:
[]Please tell me the new product will be seamless, or at least offer the user a redirection to the same topic.[/]

There will be a move kit that will silently redirect users. It'll even send the proper HTTP code (301 instead of 302), which should allow supporting browsers to silently change the bookmark to the new page location. [/]

Will this 301 keep the search engine from removing your page linked in the search engines? I've read that google hates re-directs, but if this works well then basically we can have double the pages in google

That would be cool, if not we'd have to leave threadsdev in place "read only" with a big banner pointing to the new forum. We're up over 50,000 listings here.

Vote for the name of the next generation UBB here.

[]JoshPet said:
Threads has one now. It's /languages/english [/]

You are correct for my version US English is /languages/us_english

This saddens me greatly

Infopop should release the source so that someone else could continue the work on UBB.Threads

uh... the source has been released... all people who run UBB.threads boards have the source

Unless you mean the source as in Rick... but I think he likes working there

He means the source as in Open Source.

I think he means they should make the ubbthreads source code opensource so someone else can develop it as such now you really can't legally develop it only mod it.

With all the posted in this thread I am both scared and anxious. Im looking forward to the evolution of threads and classic to see what it becomes but at the same time I am scared about the abandonment of threads and classic.

Its basically comes down to a "Move or Loose" situation. Threads and classic will be merging and all support for both, independly, will no longer be available. Move to the new BB software or Loose every bit of support.

Me being a total nu-b in php and coding threads I would Have to hire someone (again) to add / change any custom mods that I have already paid for. Im not talking about photophost or paypal mods. Im talking about mods that are custom to indiv. forums that were made and coded in for that forums use only.

But on the other hand, As it was already stated, there being a total re-write of the code might clean it up and make it even faster. Also the fact that Josh stated about it being easier to add mods

About sub forums....

It was mentioned that Just because something can be added dont mean that it should. And there was something along the lines of, everything thats was added was what was most of the members wanted? I cant imagine that "most" of the customers wanted a quick reply box over a sub forum design...

The best thing about that mod is the ability to turn it off in the admin panel.

What happens to customers that have both a threads and classic license? They are going to be the most upset I wold guess. Because they are simply "loosing" the $$ paid for one of the licenses.

I can give you a zero chance of either the UBB.classic or UBB.threads code being placed under an open source license. Signifigant elements of both are being used in the new product, in fact. You probably won't recognize the code when you see it, but it'll be there nevertheless. It would be foolish of us NOT to reuse at least some of the ~175,000 of lines of combined code.

I want to just clarify a misconception - we have no plans to drop support for UBB.threads or UBB.classic in the short term. While we are no longer putting any time into adding new features to either product, we are still taking bug reports, and will be making new bugfix releases.

We will also be providing support for both products, both on the forums at UBBCentral and via support tickets.

There will come a day when we'll announce that we intend to change how we handle support of the retired products, but that's still quite a way off. By that time, it's our hope that there will be very few qualms about switching over to the new product.

As for users with multiple licenses - if you currently have both a Classic and a Threads license, then you'll simply have two licenses, and can set up two boards of any of the three downloadable flavors.

Thaks for summing that up.

I like the idea of being able to use each license for a domain. It kinda falls under what someone was saying about buying a license for someone that has a great site but no forum to help out with advertising yourself...

Curiousity question again.

Navaho clarified that us old WWWThreads users will still have the same yearly membership renewal costs (the discounted amount I just paid in July)...which is great.

Will we still be bound by our WWWThreads licenses as well? For instance, and I am going from SERIOUS memory here...I believe the WWWThreads users can remove the "Powered by Infopop" at the bottom, and they can also run multiple instances of the forum software as long as it is on one domain. (ie - two or three separate boards on domain.com, not a live board and test board only). But I could be wrong on that information, it has been a few years.

I try to be resistant to as much change as possible. Change is very very bad! But I am starting to look forward to the new code after all the positive responses from the Infopop Team.

[]DrChaos said:
But on the other hand, As it was already stated, there being a total re-write of the code might clean it up and make it even faster. Also the fact that Josh stated about it being easier to add mods
[/]

Should be sweet! Just the little bit I've seen means the new code will be the quickest, cleanest code out there

Sounds good

When will they open a forum for feature suggestions for the new product @ UBBCentral? I hope they do soon. I promisee not to ask for subforums

I would use the existing ones for now.

Maybe we first should ask, what feature suggestions we are allowed to aks for

[]Maze said:
Maybe we first should ask, what feature suggestions we are allowed to aks for [/]

Me thinks dropping it for now is the best bet

me thinks you can ask for things they haven't said no to.

methinks this isn't the place to be telling people what to suggest

me thinks this is all becoming quite pointless

[]Jeremy said:
me thinks this is all becoming quite pointless [/]

What he said ^^

quite the contrary. Message forums were created so that people could bitch and whine about stuff---At least, that's what goes on all the ones I post on, especialy re: sports!