I guess I'll stick my two cents in... I chose w3t for 1 reason. THREADS. This was absolutely essential to me. There are too few choices that support this. UBB doesn't, VBulletin has been adamant that they won't and I haven't seen anything else that is really worthy, and I don't mind paying for software that gives me value. What I see is interesting about this is: This whole decision follows gossamer-threads introduction of their own forum software. And with their Links and Webmail now out and their intent to drive home a one-stop community software shop, and of course their pretty solid reputation, they will be a player, probably one that should concern both UBB and W3T. Their pricing is on the high end, but usually well worth it from what I have seen. Everything is modular and template driven and I really am waiting for them to release their beta of the forum software and pricing.
I popped in over at ubb's site and here's where I see issues. Obviously there is the pricing issue. But beyond that, you have flat file ubb or an oracle hosted app. Oracle isn't mysql, they are different and how many of us can afford oracle licenses... or want to when mysql works so well. I don't use php so I don't really care about that, but mod_perl is critical to me, and I don't see that either. And then comes the really big issue of threaded views. How will they handle all of that? I don't know.
And as for hacking, what is an "Official" hacking site... From a community perspective, I'd compare their support forums to the ones here, but both fall short of what's over at vbulletin. Not just for hacking, but for really getting the software to kick a** on whatever platform you are on through optimization, tuning, etc... To me that is so much more critical than anything above and beyond base features, and to be honest I've not been satisfied with the scalability of this application, I've expressed that before and I don't like the answer "you'll need to buy another server, that's what all of our big clients have done." Unfortunately for me vbulletin has been pretty adamant in their statements that they will not support threaded views. And the only thing left that I've seen is phorum.org and I'd really rather have a mod_perl app than a php one. I've already hired a mysql programmer to rewrite code, optimize queries, etc... and I think we have made a lot of good strides, but we still have a ways to go... And now I guess I feel a bit better about that decision frankly. It's the right one for me, but probably not for others.
I can understand folks reactions in being upset, and I sympathize with you. The way the internet economy has gone, the last thing everyone needs is prices going up while revenue is going down. But remember, if you paid for a license to w3t, you still have that license, the annual fee you pay is for upgrades. you can keep using it, you just won't have access to upgrades. But my guess is most of you have so manyhacks built in, that if you couldn't add another one in, you could live with that if you had to.
A thought for some folks, maybe someone like Eileen would be willing to set up a forum on their site in case this one just disappears (which considering everything wouldn't surprise me). That way if folks still wanted to continue using what they paid for, there would be a place to discuss it and I think a few of you have forums to talk about w3t already, so another woudn't be a big deal, Eileen's is just the first one that came to my mind since I've actually been to that one once or twice.
Right now, my initial reaction is I have my licenses for the software, I'll continue to use them and until I clearly see something better come along, I just won't have access to upgrades. In the meantime we'll get this puppy screaming (no pun intended) on our own, and basically have our own personal development branch. I can live with that... I have all along... And if ubb puts the resources behind to really make it a scalable and competitive application, I'm happy to look at it.
Until then, I wish you all the best with your decisions and your boards/communities and I hope that ubb comes up with the right answers to all of your very good questions... make them work like sons of you-know-what's to earn your trust, and more importantly, your business... And Scream, I hope this match is everything you expect it will be, good luck.
Late
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Just as I finished this, I popped back over to gossamer-threads.com and the new version is posted in beta and the price will be $200 for commercial use - I'm downloading now... :)
Last edited by me_o_my; 10/11/2001 11:41 PM.
